In reply to G3NYY:
Having an HF beam does rather make a nonsense of this QRP business. The logical way for SOTA to progress against high noise levels for many chasers is for all chasers to be QRP and all activators QRO -
73,
Rod - a horses for courses activator
In reply to G4OIG:
I donāt consider it unfair Walt
Neither do I. However, we are being told that it is unfair or unethical for people to use high power for chasing SOTA stations. Why is that deemed unfair, and yet it is not unfair to use a high-gain beam?
IMHO, this entire thread is a nonsense.
73,
Walt (G3NYY)
In reply to M0JLA:
The logical way for SOTA to progress against high noise levels for many chasers is for all chasers to be QRP and all activators QRO.
Perhaps that is the ideal situation for HF Rod, but it is not always easy holding a frequency with QRP. Having big stations on the frequency certainly helps and I often hear chasers āseeing offā those that would attempt to start up on frequency.
73, Gerald G4OIG
In reply to G4OIG:
I tried to chase a YO on 14MHz this morning. He was copyable despite the S7
noise level here, but I couldnāt get through with 60W, even when he was calling
CQ.
Iām not surprised to hear it, Gerald. Because there is another factor in the equation - i.e. the receive capability of the activator. Many SOTA activators are using simple, unsophisticated, home-brew receivers, without the benefit of the narrow filters, DSP and other bells and whistles of the typical modern ĆĀ£1000-plus base-station transceiver. No wonder they cannot pick up a weak signal, and chasers often need to use higher power to make themselves heard.
73,
Walt (G3NYY)
In reply to G3NYY:
IMHO, all this talk about beams versus wire antennas is a load of highly over-simplified garbage. Surely as hams we ought to know more about antennas than that? What is important in antennas is that the take-off angle of the antenna coincides with the arrival angle of the incoming signal. There are at any time paths where a vertical will outperform a horizontal antenna, and vice versa, and there will be occasions where the take-off angle of a beam will be counter-productive - in other words, there will be occasions when a simple wire will be better than a beam. As I have pointed out before, the biggest imponderable in evaluating an antenna is the ground conditions on the summit, and this is something that we will have little data on in individual cases, although as a general principle a summit with a spread of peat will have a conducting layer near to or at the surface, whilst the frost-shattering of a rocky summit will have its conducting layer at depth, modified to some extent by the type of rock. Bear in mind also that the behaviour of an antenna on the lower bands will be modified by more than just the conditions in the immediate locality, the ground type even out to a kilometre or more will have an effect, as will the slope of the ground in the desired direction.
Incidentally, whats all this about "high-gain beams"? Surely the gain of any beam likely to be deployed on the HF bands is not going to be "high" by any stretch of the imagination, even if its take-off angle is optimum? Perhaps 5dB at best is not "high-gain" to anybody who uses yagis on V/UHF! ;-) Lets be generous and say that the beam gives a gain of 6 dBd, that would make the output of an FT817 appear to be 20 watts, hardly QRO!
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G8ADD:
Incidentally, what
s all this about "high-gain beams"? Surely the gain of any beam likely to be deployed on the HF bands is not going to be "high" by any stretch of the imagination, even if its take-off angle is optimum? Perhaps 5dB at best is not "high-gain" to anybody who uses yagis on V/UHF! ;-) Lets be generous and say that the beam
gives a gain of 6 dBd, that would make the output of an FT817 appear
to be 20 watts, hardly QRO!
That is only part of the story, Brian. HF beams are almost invariably mounted on a rotator, which enables the signal to be directed at the desired station. Very, very few wire dipoles, doublets, end-feds, etc, can be rotated. Therefore the 6 dBd gain advantage applies in only two directions (at most). In other directions, there is likely to be a far greater advantage in using the beam.
BTW, at my QTH an HF vertical on 14 MHz NEVER outperforms a horizontal doublet.
As I intimated before, this thread is becoming increasingly specious by the minute.
73,
Walt (G3NYY)
In reply to G3NYY:
BTW, at my QTH an HF vertical on 14 MHz NEVER outperforms a horizontal
doublet.
Now that`s really interesting, Walt, have you looked into why this is? I mean, although the gain of the vertical is several dB less than the main lobe of a horizontal, this should be offset by the facility of the vertical in using very low angle signals, and having no nulls in the horizontal plane. Are very low angle signals blocked out by the terrain at your QTH?
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G3NYY:
IMHO, this entire thread is a nonsense.
It is Walt. But itās our kind of nonsense and we like it!
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to all:
Itās true that having a 3 el. yagi up 15m above the ground is a nice thing that pretty much all hams would like to have, but this doesnāt mean that not having it makes impossible to make QRP contacts, even long distance ones.
In the first post of this thread I wrote about the many QSOs I managed to complete with 5 watts and a very simple antenna, just a Long Wire as an inverted vee connected to my AT and the FT-817, with not even a counterpoise connection to ground.
I know there will be some hams telling that I had an advantage because my QTH was in front of the ocean but itās not always true. It may be an advantage for QSOs with America but I was nearly at the Westmost corner of the Iberian peninsulae, far away from the central European countries and I used to hear many European chasers making QSOs with activations in countries like HB, S5, DL, OM, OK, SP, F in the early morning and I didnāt even copy a whisper of them yet, but it was much later, after the sun had risen higher for me, when I was starting to receive signals from central Europe. Of course I missed those early morning activations but I got others later. Each location, each antenna system gets its own propagation conditions.
Itās a question of being patient and waiting the right moment to chase, as conditions change over time.
The sun moves making conditions to change; sun activity also changes over time; signal polarisation changes also as the signal travels the atmosphere and a vertical antenna beats sometimes a yagi, some other times a NVIS type antenna beats both a vertical and a yagi with lower radiation angles. Sometimes the other way around. This is the interesting field I want to explore and Iām inviting you to investigate with me.
As I wrote on an earlier post, the more of us we play this game, the more fun weāll have and the more weāll learn about it.
Best 73 de Guru - EA2IF
You canāt buy propagation.
73 Chris M0RSF
In reply to M0RSF:
Fortunatelyā¦
In reply to M0RSF:
You canāt buy propagation.
Au contraire mon amiā¦ you just need enough money.
c.f. HAARP, HIPAS, EISCAT
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to G8ADD:
Are very low angle signals blocked out by the terrain at your QTH?
Yes.
73,
Walt (G3NYY)
In reply to MM0FMF:
Au contraire mon amiā¦ you just need enough money.
c.f. HAARP, HIPAS, EISCAT
All of which may have done irreparable damage to the ionosphere and the ozone layer.
73,
Walt (G3NYY)
In reply to G3NYY:
I doubt it, they are pretty small potatoes compared with a geoeffective X flare!
73
Brian G8ADD
Dear all,
August 16th chasing on HF was very good with the same QRP 5watts.
I also tried to work George (KX0R) on 20m CW but he was far too weak to complete a QSO today. I called him some few times just to try and see if the QSB decided to work well for me, but it didnāt. I was unable to copy George and was able to just detect sometimes when he was transmitting but nothing better than than. Next time my friend. We have already worked a 2xQRP contact and Iām sure weāll do it again one of these days.
Best 73 de Guru - EA2IF
Dear all,
I havenāt had much time to spend on the hobby these last few days, so little QRP chasing to be reported since my last post about August 16th activity.
Just 3 activations chased on 20m CW on the 17th:
Two activations chased on the 18th,
Finally, a single chase yesterday on 20m CW,
Best 73 de Guru - EA2IF
In reply to EA2IF:
Guru, whilst some people do try for EU contacts using just 5W, a number of VK activators use quite bit more. VK1NAM often uses around 40W for his EU attempts and others like Mark VK1EM and myself use 80W to 100W. Particularly with the noise levels from other stations as well as others on nearby frequencies, your 5W just is not going to be an easy copy.
That is not to say that I have not had 5W EU chasers make it through, but they are fairly infrequent and never unassisted when there are the higher powered stations in competition. I have made 5W both way contacts to EU (even got through to Spain on 40m using just 5W), but they have usually needed the help of someone else to alert the other station you are trying to get through to.
Whilst my QTH generally has a very low noise floor, I have times when the local QRM is very high (power line related) - so as a chaser I always appreciate it when the activator takes the effort to improve their signals to make it easier for me to copy when conditions are bad or my QRM levels are high. As such I usually try and reciprocate when I am activating - higher power and a decent antenna is what I aim for. Also makes it easier for the long haul contacts (like EU and NA when propagation and timing is good) which I always get a kick from achieving.
I say that if people want to use QRP either activating or chasing, that is their own choice - just donāt be upset when you are unable to get through to the activator or cannot quite hear him in the noise. Sometimes 5W is going to make the grade - more often than not.
Matt
VK1MA
In reply to VK1MA:
Dear Matt,
Thank you for your comment. I understand your point and agree with you
that working QRO makes copy easier between very far away stations.
I have a TL-922 Amp. in my shack but havenāt used it for some time.
At the present time, Iām enjoying very much chasing QRP 5 watts and I do
continue chasing almost all I can copy. Iām pretty sure Iāll chase some
of you guys from some VK summit one of these days. Itās a question of
finding the right time, having myself some time to spend in the shack
when you are activating and conditions are good via LP in the morning,
plus not too much qrm and a couple of good ears for weak signals on the
activator side,
Iāll try to chase VK3MCD on 20m SSB when activating VK3/VE-126 later today at 6h30 utc.
I can tell you all that QRP SOTA chasing was very good yesterday 22/8
afternoon-evening, with 6 European plus 2 USA activations chased on 10m
(one) and 20m.
Callsign/Band/Mode:
SQ9OJN/P on 10m SSB
YO6PIB/P on 20m SSB
SM/PA7T/P on 20m SSB
DF2GN/P on 20m CW
S57MS/P on 20m SSB
SQ9PND/P on 20m SSB
VA2VL/W2 on 20m CW - great DX!
N4EX on 20m CW - great DX!
Thanks to all of you for copying my little QRP signal.
Best 73 de Guru - EA2IF
Dear SOTA mates:
I write you this post to give you my Aug 23rd and 24th QRP SOTA chasing report. Thanks to the new reflector capabilities I can now take screenshots from the SOTA database and paste them here instead of writing the worked activator callsigns, bands and modes.
On Saturday, the 23rd I chased 5 European activations, 4 on 20m SSB and 1 on 30m CW, which was not chased from home but during my activation on Mt. La Rhune (F/PO-212). This is the list taken from the database.
Very late on Saturday night, in fact it was very early on Sundayās morning, before going to bed, I raised an alert because I was planning to activate a summit that I hadnāt yet activated and is less than 20Km from my QTH. But I didnāt go to bed until a bit after 3:30 AM (local) and I was unable to get up when the wake-up alarm rang at 7 AM (local). I remained in bed a bit longer and got finally up at about 8:30 (local). I deleted the alert and decided to stay home to spend as much time as I could doing SOTA chasing.
I finally chased a VK activation with very weak signal and thatās why I repeated the QSO later, once the signal had built up. These 2 great DX QSOs with VK5 were followed by a large number of chases.
All HF chases of both days were made on QRP 5 watts except the one of HB9HVK/P, for which, after several unsuccessful trials with 5 watts, I only managed to chase with a power of 10 watts.
This is the list of chases taken from the database.
Some of the chases on Sunday 24th were on 2m FM and the used power wasnāt QRP 5 watts, but 15 or 30 watts.
Finally, let me say 73 and taking again advantage of the new reflector capabilities, send you a picture of myself during the last rainy activation of Mount Eltxumendi (EA2/NV-132). The picture was taken by my friend Ignacio (EA2BD). Thank you!
I wish you all the best and very good SOTA de Guru - EA2IF.