In reply to G8ADD:
Brian,
I am broadly aligned aligned with you, Marc and David. We are all entitled to our opinions but surely we are obliged not to denigrate the opinion of others. There are several threads recently in which the exchanges have gone well beyond reasonable debate or opinion with contrary views being treated with disdain. Such actions crush opposing views and cause individuals who might make a contribution to duck below the parapet. The consequence is that we no longer get a balanced perspective. Change requires careful and considerate assessment of whether it is needed, if so how it should be done, and a thorough analysis of the consequences. Impatience accompanied by abrasive comments does nothing to promote resolution.
73 jim
In reply to GW4BVE:
Hi John
You addressed your reply to me, so I think it only decent that I offer a reply. Here are my opinions and after a lot of thought, my responses to the issues you raise.
There IS more to this than meets the eye. Mick’s post which resulted in his ban, was probably the most innocent and even “positive” posting the lad has ever placed on our reflector, actually patting MT on the back for a good start on the “More Summits” debate.
So, we have to ask ourselves what was the real reason for this ban. If I’m not mistaken, at least three people received emails with a blatant threat… Shut up or you will be barred from the reflector, I wasn’t one of them I hasten to add. This is censorship to the highest degree and almost a travesty against free speech.
You ask if I will take action in support of Mick. That goes without saying, he has been a friend, chasing partner, activation partner and I have spent many hours in his wonderful company. Mick was and probably still is, one of the most passionate sota participants you will ever meet and if this terrible decision is not reversed, I fear the future of sota.
I thought long and hard about my protest to support Mick and there is only one action I can take.
I can no longer take part in any form on a reflector which is censored to the point of forcing a man to end his beloved sota activity.
The Sota News is part of that reflector and I have made the heart wrenching decision to suspend further news bulletins until further notice. This is my protest in support of Mick 2E0HJD. This decision was not taken lightly, believe me.
I agree that the next debate will be over the awards. Sota has grown so fast that the awards, which were once a distant dream to attain, are now (in my opinion)devalued.
I have scored over 100 points in a day many times, I think 172 points in a day was my best, it’s possible to get ss the once the prized trophy, in a month without raising a sweat, in fact I have averaged well over 1000 chaser points per month for a year. I managed 10,000 chaser points in just over 9 months. I am not qualified to quote on activator awards because I’m a part time activator.
There are problems within sota, MT need to listen and act now before it’s too late, not just make a decision to oppress us through censorship every time they disagree.
I ask once again Jon, please give some thought to reversing your decision on Mick.
73 and peace to all
Mike GW0DSP
P.S. Today marks my 1st anniversary of participation in SOTA and I didn’t envisage celebrating it in misery, due to the loss of Mick!!!
In reply to MM0FMF:
Andy, how refreshing to see your posting, although I’m not in the GM assoc. I think you should be commended for inviting debate with your fellow participants.
Well done!!
73 Mike
Guys… come on let’s just take a breath and step back.
Censorship is not the issue here, there are plenty of robust comments on the reflector, it is merely the manner of some posts that has raised the, some might say, ugly (but necessary) head of moderation.
Remember this site is not a public place. It is provided by the program for participants to use, within reasonable limits. Imagine if you invited people to have a meeting in your front room and then someone became overly “boisterous”. You may very well ask them politely to calm down or leave. That’s what moderation is about, not censorship
As for the conspiracy theories re. the MT… well we can all see that the discussion on anomalies, 100m prominences, humps etc has prompted some “work in progress” that I’m looking forward to seeing the conclusions… especially as a “southern shandy drinker” living in the “flatlands” surrounded by “Humps”. So let’s not mix up all the issues.
Mike I also hope you will separate your views from your editorial position and continue to produce the excellent newsletter. I’m afraid that suspending it would do more harm than good.
As for the point on awards being devalued… That is far from true for many of us… It’s not as easy for everyone you know and it’s still a very worthwhile goal for me. I have a young family, a full time job that requires much overseas travel and other weekend commitments. So after a year of chasing I’m only just over half way to Shack Sloth… and still working at it.
Anyway back to the point. I would appeal to all not to make hasty “protests”… there is a clear way out of this situation but the way forward rests with more than just Jon and his finger hovering over the keyboard.
73 and hoping for an amicable resolution…
…with Mick still participating… Marc GØAZS
I have been asked by an activator that I respect to try a a slightly different and perhaps more positive approach. Here are some actions that might help:
Firstly as a show of goodwill Mick 2E0HJD should be restored to full posting rights on the reflector.
Mick has resigned from SOTA which is real shame as his contribution is obviously valuable to a number of people. I will speak to Mick (a) try to persuade him to continue with SOTA. (b) discuss and review his, mine and others approach to dealing with these issues.
The MT should consider publishing their initial thoughts and proposals to address the issues identified. Maybe some kind of survey would be appropriate to assess activators and chasers views. The options do not have to be precise or finalised, in fact it would be better if they weren’t finalised and participants could feel they were influencing their destiny. I have just seen Andy’s (MM0FMF) posting which is doing exactly that for Scottish participants. This should be be extended to all.
Agree a SHORT period of reflection in the way that Brian G8ADD suggested , but perhaps around a week for the actions to be implemented.
What do you say MT?
73 John GW4BVE
In reply to GW4BVE:
OK, a few quick responses:
Firstly, I do not accept the charge of censorship. I have resisted any kind of moderation of this facility probably far longer than I should have done. The reflector had become a place where the majority of the 1000+ subscribers to the site simply didn’t feel comfortable posting due to bullying and being afraid of provoking flame wars by airing their opinions. This was caused by a very small minority.
My action was FOR freedom of speech not against it.
In response to GW4BVE: I asked Mick for an assurance that he would abide by the guidelines long laid down for this forum. He refused to give this. If he gives me an unequivocal commitment to do so, I will consider his re-instatement. However, he has formally asked us to remove his entries from SOTAwatch and the SOTA database which we are currently working on.
I have removed the link to the Flickr site as requested.
As for asking the MT for a response to your suggestions, please direct an email to the MT on this matter.
In response to GW0DSP: I understand from your comments that you no longer will be participating on this reflector. I also understand that you will no longer be producing the news bulletin. May I take this opportunity to thank you for your contributions in the past which I know many have appreciated.
73, Jon
In reply to GM4ZFZ:
Thanks for your response Jon and your kind words re the news. Please note my wording ie “Suspend” the news.
I sincerely hope that yourself and Mick can come to some sort of agreement either through personal email (best option) or the reflector and find a solution to this hideous situation.
I shall do my utmost to try and persuade Mick to re-think his decision and to email you.
Judging by the amount of email I am receiving from UK and EU ops in support of Mick being reinstated, he will be very much missed in sota circles.
Most emails have stated that they have approached me via email because they fear a ban themselves if they post on the reflector.
Let’s hope you and Mick can get your heads together and resolve the issue.
73 Mike
In reply to GW4BVE:
“The MT should consider publishing their initial thoughts and proposals to address the issues identified. Maybe some kind of survey would be appropriate to assess activators and chasers views. The options do not have to be precise or finalised, in fact it would be better if they weren’t finalised and participants could feel they were influencing their destiny. I have just seen Andy’s (MM0FMF) posting which is doing exactly that for Scottish participants. This should be be extended to all.”
John, that is an excellent suggestion.
Keith G8HXE.
I have just spent some calm time reviewing this thread and make an observation and comment:
BVE said “I have been asked by an activator that I respect to try a a slightly different and perhaps more positive approach.”
and I think that is an excellent initiative.
But we presently have an impasse, as in all negotiations, if both paties wish to achieve a solution, there must be a will on BOTH parties to do so. And if we are to achieve a solution which ultimately should suit both parties then that will and a positive approach will be required from both parties. I hope this can be achieved to the satisfaction of all.
73 all and goodnight, Ian
In reply to G7KXV:
I have just spent some calm time reviewing this thread and make an
observation and comment:BVE said “I have been asked by an activator that I respect to try
a a slightly different and perhaps more positive approach.”and I think that is an excellent initiative.
Well said Ian. I have followed the ongoing debates with interest and a sad heart. I do feel that there is good reason for people to feel upset, but I also think it is being taken too far. As a young SWL I used to read books on amateur radio that told me of lifelong friendships across vast oceans and of the spirit of togetherness to be found in our fine hobby. The situation here is quickly declining into “just another forum” where people spend time arguing the toss over things and the powers that be dealing with it as best they think they can by clicking buttons. Its all a bit of a mess.
I do think that the MT have to address some (quite a lot of) issues because that is now the status quo. It is however, an unenviable task to calmly and rationally gather your convictions on such a broad range of topics in the face of so many angry participants. I think that a cooling off period is a great idea, perhaps followed by a period of consultation. G8ADD has a good point with his “like it or lump it” take on the scenario, but I see SOTA as a wonderful community and communites no matter how they are “governed” or lead will generally dictate their own form (perhaps not in a truly Orwellian scenario, but I don’t think SOTA is into the realms of totalitarianism just yet: apparently OFCOM (part of the Ministry of Plenty) won’t issue NoVs to the MT for Telescreens ;).
Perhaps every last one of us needs to take a “slightly different and perhaps more positive approach”. Let us not dwell darkly on what has happened but look forward with a positive outlook to what is yet to be. Participant or MT, we are all still radio amateurs and that counts for a lot.
I hope that Mick and the MT manage to come to a happy and mutually agreeable reinstatement.
73 and peace to all,
Dave 2W0BYA.
In reply to 2E0BYA:
Dave, “like it or lump it” is an extremely succinct but valid distillation of what I said, but FWIW I also see SOTA as a wonderful community. I see no conflict between appreciating the inherent nature of the activity and enjoying the glamour with which we clothe it.
It would be easy to let the recent disputes mask what is going on in the vast majority of threads, the exchange of information on equipment, techniques and the hills, a leavening of humour, an overall feeling of comradeship. I hope that Mick can return, I hope the MT can reconcile the various requests made to them and satisfy everybody, but above all I want the fun to continue.
73
Brian G8ADD