In reply to DL4MFM:
Fully understood Mario. I was just illustrating the fact that the idea could have a negative effect by creating the need to revisit the same area.
I hope that the effect of the rule change on the DL low mountains will not be as bad as many fear.
73, Gerald
so so,
the words are spoken and now i know what i have to do 
the reasons for easier summits all over the assocs i posted in past mails.
to make sota possible for everyone. but you are right , it is summits on the air!
a few last words here in the reflector from me.
i don´t understand, that nothing comes from the other sota-countries .
i think not only dm/dl must make a rework on the lists. also all other countries.
right ??
so also F,OE,HB9,OK and ON ! have to delete summits. but no action from these countries.i wonder a little bit.
i don´t give examples of the summits which are not within the strictly prominence rule.
for me now comes a longer break in sota till the lists are cleared and within
the holy rules. as norby says - i do not activate a summit more, before i know the summit is illegal next time or not. after all these discussions ( also at the beginning of the year ) i have lost a bit the good feeling by a sota activation. all the moaners here disturbs my sight of sota with hamspirit and friendship all over the assocs. don´t missunderstood me, but i haven´t a good nice feeling anymore if i activate a summit. to much happend the last time !
sorry …
vy 73 klaus DF2GN
also made a break here to read in this reflector. no fun anymore .
please no wonder about no replies from me …
or better, admin…delete my account ! please
In reply to DF2GN:
also made a break here to read in this reflector. no fun anymore .
please no wonder about no replies from me …
or better, admin…delete my account ! please
Klaus, this is the worst day for SOTA, to lose one of the top activators in SOTA, please please, I urge you to give this some more thought and with your 100 QSO activations I hope some of those other 100 ops will agree with me and voice their opinion on your decision here.
Vy 73 Mike GW0DSP
In reply to DF2GN:
Hi Klaus and others,
Very sorry about you leaving. But at the moment I am struggeling with the same thoughts. We only have 8 summits in ON and there will be hardly anything left or too far away after these rules. Furthermore I was going to activate summits in DM/RP in August (see other topic) but will not bother anymore for fear that the summits would not be valid anyway.
I Will stay low key untill everything is decided and then see if I carry on with SOTA or not.
73, AWDH
Peter
In reply to DF2GN:
i don´t understand, that nothing comes from the other sota-countries .
Klaus, we don’t write in this this topic reflector, but WE READ !
As many others, I think that you must not leave SOTA ! a break, yes, why not if you want ?
Remember, how many hams voted for the man of the last year?
Best 73
Alain F6ENO
In reply to ON3WAB, DF2GN
Klaus, Peter
As far as I can tell the only Associations affected by the adoption of the 100m prominence rule are DM and DL, all the others embody a minimum prominence of 100m (HA, OE, SV, ZS) or 150m (F, G, GW, GD, GI, GM, HB, OK, ON, W2) anyway. And I have yet to see any definitive information on how many summits will be lost in the affected Associations.
Indeed I would think that if adopting 100m minimum prominence would give ON more summits, it would not be difficult to successfully argue for it’s adoption in the ON Association.
The loss of either of you would be a sad day for SOTA, I would beg you to look at the full story before making your decisions to quit.
Vy 73 de Paul G4MD
To Klaus and Peter:
I agree with Paul. You are both important to SOTA and it would be a very sad day if either of you left the program. My understanding of the situation is the same as Paul has outlined, so please let the Association Managers have time to work out what the rule changes mean before making a decision.
Vy 73, Gerald G4OIG
In reply to DL4MFM:
I notice that there is not one single EU SOTA out today!!
Coincidence, or a sign of things to come and who could blame them.
73 Mike
In reply to GW0DSP:
Try looking at the midday map on:
Not a map that encourages /P operation!
Who was it that was making aggressive posts about how easy the Germans have it, how come you’ve swapped sides, Mike?
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G8ADD:
…and take a look at the UK wx Brian, plenty of ops out here I notice.
73 Mike
In reply to G8ADD:
In reply to GW0DSP:
Who was it that was making aggressive posts about how easy the Germans
have it, how come you’ve swapped sides, Mike?73
Brian G8ADD
Firstly, my posts were not aggressive, they were only aggressive through the eyes of MT as is any remark they disagree with.
Who has swapped sides Brian? More to the point, SIDES??? I thought we were all in the same awards scheme, or do you/MT see it as us and them?
You have lost me, I said that I wanted a level playing field ie give UK what DL has, EASY SOTA, that view has never changed!!
73 Mike GW0DSP
PS I’m not saying I am correct, but it is my opinion which I should be entitled to voice without fear of punishment.
In reply to GW0DSP:
In the bright but windy zone between the trough line and the occlusion where the snow showers are relatively few. I admire Richard standing the wind and cold for so long making his microwave contacts, I doubt I could do it, I’d pack up at the first break in callers after qualifying!
73
Brian
In reply to GW0DSP:
Hi Mike,
I notice that there is not one single EU SOTA out today!!
Heavy snow fall even at low altitudes here. The avalanche risk is 4/5 in the Alps today. Bad luck for the Easter weekend for any mountain activies outside of ski stations.
73, Jaakko OH7BF/F5VGL
In reply to F5VGL:
Hi Jaakko, wow that is bad especially at Easter and certainly to dangerous.
I meant that in the whole EU there is no sota today and wondering if it was a knock on effect after yesterdays announcement.
I know a lot of EU are upset judging by the many emails I have received from friends in EU.
73 Mike
In reply to G8ADD:
I bet you would too Brian, hi, but no getting away from it, UK bad wx and plenty of ops out, EU bad wx and NO ops out, maybe the problem is more to do with bad feelings rather than bad wx, plenty have said as much.
73 Mike
In reply to GW0DSP:
Well, my impression was that you wanted the more OTT German summits eliminated, a view that I sympathised with during that discussion, and now that has been put in train and some of the German ops are complaining bitterly about it you seem to be sympathising with them. As I see it there is a difference between wanting to make SOTA a bit easier by, say, adopting P100 instead of P150, a perfectly valid viewpoint, and wanting to make SOTA easier by adopting negligable summits for frivolous reasons.
You are indeed entitled to your opinion, and you are indeed entitled to voice it without fear of punishment. Nobody that I know of has been punished for expressing a contrary opinion. Nobody. And it is inconceivable that anybody will.
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to GW0DSP:
In reply to G8ADD:
I bet you would too Brian, hi, but no getting away from it, UK bad wx
and plenty of ops out, EU bad wx and NO ops out,
I only know of four activations, are there others not being posted, Mike? You are better placed than me to know, being centrally placed between the main hill areas.
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G8ADD:
In reply to GW0DSP:
Well, my impression was that you wanted the more OTT German summits
eliminated, a view that I sympathised with during that discussion, and
now that has been put in train and some of the German ops are
complaining bitterly about it you seem to be sympathising with them.
As I see it there is a difference between wanting to make SOTA a bit
easier by, say, adopting P100 instead of P150, a perfectly valid
viewpoint, and wanting to make SOTA easier by adopting negligable
summits for frivolous reasons.
I’ll make my opinion crystal clear then…
I would have been in favour of giving the German option to the UK, to me it was the sensible choice, voiced by many in the debate started by Ian G7KXV, see “more summits in GLand” thread.
Of course I sympathise with my friends in Germany, they are/were superb ambassadors for SOTA and prolific activators.
I am disgusted that the many who were always queing up for Klaus & Co. and eager and willing to take 10 points at a time have not expressed their feelings on his and others possibly leaving SOTA!!
You are indeed entitled to your opinion, and you are indeed entitled
to voice it without fear of punishment. Nobody that I know of has been
punished for expressing a contrary opinion. Nobody. And it is
inconceivable that anybody will.
You might want to put that suggestion to Mick 2E0HJD!!
I reiterate Brian, it’s a breath of fresh air to be able to debate this reasonably with a member of the MT, you are to be congratulated on it and I hope your current attitude doesn’t change with time. Well done.
73 Mike
In reply to G8ADD:
Well, my impression was that you wanted the more OTT German summits
eliminated, a view that I sympathised with during that discussion…
Brian,
To be correct, it wasn’t the fact whether attaining the summits was easy or hard, the issue that was discussed was the fact that on a number of occasions a series of DM summits were activated reaping over 125 points for the activators, whereas the average day out activating in the UK was realising only a very small proportion of that amount.
I for one would not have welcomed named summits on a TOP50 map as a parameter for establishing UK summits. There would have been lots of summits to activate, but the challenge would have been considerably reduced. Having said that, I do believe that in England we are short of summits relative to the amateur population and the spread of the summits is also very poor. I will prepare my thoughts on the matter and email our AM in due course putting a case for the P100 parameter to be applied to England. Hopefully others will do likewise, but of course everyone is entitled to their opinion on this.
73, Gerald
In reply to GW0DSP:
“I am disgusted that the many who were always queing up for Klaus & Co. and eager and willing to take 10 points at a time have not expressed their feelings on his and others possibly leaving SOTA!!”
I still believe that Klaus and the others expressed intention to leave SOTA will not come about when they have had time to digest the changes and see that the result of those changes will not be as catastrophic as they fear. Indeed if the Germans take up the option to change to P100 they might end up with more summits than they have now, the difference being that the new summits will be defined by solid numerical parameters. I also believe that those summits that stand to be eliminated are valid right up to the date the Germans set for the changeover, and Chaser and Activator points derived from those summits up to that date remain valid. If Klaus and his fellow SOTAeers persist in their intention to leave I will be very sad and will make efforts to convince them to change their minds, but for the moment I chose to regard their decision as not final. Klaus, if you read this, wait and see before finally committing yourself!
"> You are indeed entitled to your opinion, and you are indeed entitled
to voice it without fear of punishment. Nobody that I know of has been
punished for expressing a contrary opinion. Nobody. And it is
inconceivable that anybody will.
You might want to put that suggestion to Mick 2E0HJD!!"
Mick ran into trouble NOT because of his opinions but because of the intemporate way he expressed them. He had the opportunity to apologise and return but refused it. Personally I regretted deeply at the time and still do that he allowed his pride to get in the way.
“I reiterate Brian, it’s a breath of fresh air to be able to debate this reasonably with a member of the MT, you are to be congratulated on it and I hope your current attitude doesn’t change with time. Well done.”
Thanks, Mike, as the advert says, “It’s good to talk!”
73
Brian G8ADD