Why all the cluster spots on SOTA?

Old Reflector
41

In reply to DL4MFM:
hi Mario,
sota becomes more and more international. so why can it be that all must have
summit criterias which are made for uk-summits ? thats make it impossible for many countries to take part in program. oh yes, i forgot , no summits like marylins, no sota !
two questions adressed to the uk-mt :

  • why no voting about easier summit criterias with all activators and chasers ?
    the rules are made from only 6 or 7 persons for all other sotarians !

  • is that fact that dm/dl and other assocs. have to delete all summits
    that are not in the 150m vertical seperation ( marylins ) in future.
    mt wrote they discuss about, but i´m sure, mt have the answer fixed since days.
    so please one clear word.
    summits must be deleted or perhaps changes to make the criterias for summits easier ?

vy 73 klaus DF2GN

42

If the SOTA MT really removes some of the DM German Low Mountain Summits SOTA programme will become more and more poor. Better is to give the same in the UK (as mentioned above from GW0DSP) and / or to increase the ‘value’ of higher mountain regions. Make SOTA more public / attractive and SOTA wins the attention of more and more people. It’s always better to inrease than to reduce. Offer SOTA to a bigger range of hams and you will see, more and more people will follow your spirit.

vy 73 de Wolfgang DO4WD

BTW: What is the spirit / sense of SOTA? A competition between hams or an award for hams?
May I get an answer from the MT?

43

In reply to DF2GN:
Klaus, as a brand new member of the MT I would hope that you will not automatically assume that I have been indoctrinated with a party line. At some point there will be a considered response from the MT and you will no doubt find that some of the assumptions that are arousing your anger are mistaken. In the meanwhile I want to make a few points that I would have made in exactly the same way before my very recent “elevation”.

I was not involved in the setting up of SOTA (I was QRT at the time) but once I joined I made a point of reading all the emails that preceded the setting up of SOTA (they are still on the old reflector, I believe) and I found a huge amount of discussion took place (not just amongst the people that became the first MT) about how a summit should be defined. 150 metres was finally agreed upon because it was the criterion for the Marilyn list that was available at that time, because it was also 500 feet in our old “Imperial” units, but most important of all, because the founders considered that 500 feet/150 metres was a worthwhile climb. There are regions of G-land where there are no Marilyns, just as there are few or none in PA, that is a fact of geography. If there are no summits you can’t invent them, so exactly as you say, “no summits like marilyns, no sota” - except for chasing, of course. It is possible to reduce the SOTA criterion from P150 to something smaller, but at some point you have to conclude that you are no longer ascending a worthwhile hill. Where is that point for you, Klaus, would you be happy with P100, or P50, P10, P1? When is a summit not a summit? Make a proposal for scrutiny and discussion by other SOTA-eers, I bet you will find a lot of different opinions then!

Both you and Mike bring up the issue of voting rights. As a matter of interest what voting rights do you and Mike have in DXCC, or in IOTA? SOTA is the new kid on the block, but DXCC and IOTA are the programs that it is expanding to join as a major international awards program (and that, I think, answers you, too, Wolfgang - see the SOTA website!) A program like SOTA has to start somewhere, and the people who conceived of and founded SOTA set up the rules after much discussion, the program then stands or falls by the numbers of people who take part in it. At present in SOTA they number many hundreds and more join every day. To me that sounds suspiciously like success, they did a remarkably good job considering that they started from nothing!

Finally a question for Norby: who do you know of who has been kicked out of the SOTA program? That there is anyone at all is news to me!

As I say, this is exactly what I would have written several days ago, it is not a pronouncement from the MT, and I hope in no way pre-empts such a pronouncement, but it is my gut response to this controversy. Any rejoiners that you make will therefore be to me personally and not the MT.

73

Brian G8ADD

44

In reply to ALL:

Dear Friends

SOTA is not only MT and sure is not the 3-4 persons who are using the SOTA reflector here to express their views of how THEY want the SOTA be.

Every day there are many people who working for SOTA doing speciffic jobs concerning web pages, the rules, the summits included or, enjoying SOTA participating as activators or chasers.

These people (including me) feeling offended reading all these paranoia here, especially these 2 days.

So, please stop it or “round” it a little. After all you are using the reflector of the award scheme you blame.

Its a very common situation people who start to participate somewhere to get after a while so deep involved with it to believe that the rules must bend as they like or that THEY have the BEST idea or the BEST opinion and BEST view on everything.

Ok its your rigth but… dont use SOTA reflector to throw you bad opinion for SOTA.

SOTA is the MT, the AMs, the Regional manager, The General Rules and the Associations ARMs.

It is nothing more and has no any reason to be something “different”, “changed” or “new” because I/you/everyone have/has a new idea or a different view.

If I like SOTA as it is i will continue participating and enjoy it, if i dont like it i will stop playing SOTA.

Its simple.

The last thing i could do is to use SOTA’s reflector to blame it.

Sorry but it is at least SPAM nothing more.

sincerely
Panos Bogris
SV1COX

P.S. SPAM: “Spamming is the abuse of electronic messaging systems to indiscriminately send unsolicited bulk messages.”

“unsolicited”: Definition: unasked for

45

In reply to G8ADD:
“Finally a question for Norby: who do you know of who has been kicked out of the SOTA program? That there is anyone at all is news to me!”

I know of a 2E who has been kicked off the forum.

73 Norby

46

In reply to LX1NO:

In reply to G8ADD:
“Finally a question for Norby: who do you know of who has been
kicked out of the SOTA program? That there is anyone at all is news to
me!”

I know of a 2E who has been kicked off the forum.

73 Norby
No you don’t, Norby, he lost his temper and left of his own free will, and although his messages to the reflector had been very abrasive nobody wanted him to go.

73

Brian G8ADD

47

In reply to G8ADD:

100% wrong Brian, Mick was kicked off “The Forum” as Norby said.

That action caused Mick to lose his temper, then remove his own account.

Mike

48

In reply to GW0DSP:

Hi Mike,

“it’s the only answer that makes any sense.”

I would say that I’m not convinced that reducing everything to the lowest common factor is the way forward. I understand both sides of the situation and the one thing that it is not, is simple . There will need to be compromise… and the only reference to compromise in this thread was made earlier by Paul G4MD. I do not see anyone else speaking that language. Are we so far apart?

Just as our friends in Europe do not welcome the potential loss of a large number of summits, as a regular UK activator I would not welcome the addition of a vast number of summits to the UK lists. I say this even though my average travel distance on a day of activation is around 500km. What is needed is balance.

My personal opinion is that a change in the prominence parameter could well offer the compromise that is required to allow us all to sing from the same song sheet. I also believe that uniformity across the Associations is essential to avoid the reoccurrence of this issue in the future… but as I said, the solution is not simple. The MT certainly have their work cut out.

73, Gerald

49

In reply to G8ADD:

In reply to DF2GN:
Both you and Mike bring up the issue of voting rights. As a matter of
interest what voting rights do you and Mike have in DXCC, or in IOTA?
73

Brian G8ADD

The right to democratically vote for the MT members, for a starter!!

73 Mike

50

In reply to GW0DSP:
Sorry, Mike, but that looks to me like a non sequitor!

You have no voting rights in DXCC, and no voting rights in IOTA. If you want to change SOTA into a democracy and vote yourself bread and circuses you will have to start campaigning now, but you might end up with an MT consisting of Americans, Kiwis (sorry, ZL’s!) and South Africans, and their idea of bread and circuses might be different to yours! On the scale of the Rockies or the South Island the UK may not even have any summits at all!

73

Brian G8ADD

51

In reply to GW0DSP:

In reply to G8ADD:

100% wrong Brian, Mick was kicked off “The Forum” as Norby
said.

That action caused Mick to lose his temper, then remove his own
account.

Mike

You are right, Mike, I missed the fact that Norby had changed the subject from program to forum.

73

Brian G8ADD

52

All,

The MT, together with all the association managers, is currently working on some amendments that will improve the consistency of the whole situation, and remove the contradictions that currently exist between the General Rules and some associations (DM is NOT one of those BTW, but a separate ARM issue is being discussed there).

The work is almost complete, and we should be able to make announcements shortly. In the meantime, could I please ask for your patience, and await the official statement before try to guess its contents and commenting upon it? The speculation above is inaccurate in at least one aspect or another.

A team of very committed individuals has been working very hard on this for many weeks. Please let us/them finish the job properly. We all want to get this right. If you have any representations you wish to make towards this process, then your own Association Manager is the best line of communication, not this reflector.

Regarding “democracy”, SOTA is not a club or organisation. It is an awards programme, owned by and made available by John G3WGV. As Panos says, the democratic choice is to join in - or not.

Tom M1EYP

53

In reply to G8ADD:

Wrong Brian. IOTA has a voted in MT.
You are getting your wires crossed Brian and not for the first time.

If I didn’t know you better Brian I would say that the rest of your comment is almost touching on racism!!

Mike

54

In reply to DL4MFM:

its welcome Mario.

73, Panos, SV1COX

55

In reply to GW0DSP:

In reply to G8ADD:

Wrong Brian. IOTA has a voted in MT.
You are getting your wires crossed Brian and not for the first time.

If I didn’t know you better Brian I would say that the rest of your
comment is almost touching on racism!!

Mike
Last time I checked IOTA was run by an RSGB committee with at least some of the members appointees of the Council, has this changed?

Racism? Moi? Gercha!

73

Brian G8ADD

56

In reply to G8ADD:

In reply to GW0DSP:

In reply to G8ADD:

Mike
Last time I checked IOTA was run by an RSGB committee with at least
some of the members appointees of the Council, has this changed?

73

Brian G8ADD

No point in futher comment Brian, it’s irrelevant, as Tom said, It’s John’s bat and ball and if we argue he will go home and take his bat n ball with him:-)

End of, we either comply or leave, that’s the size of it, shame to receive that sort of non-respect though.

73 Mike

PS, apologies for the delay Brian, I add my congratulations to you on your elevation to MT, well done Brian, I know you will do a great job.

57

In reply to GW0DSP:
Thanks, Mike. I’m sure that John wouldn’t do that, too much effort and dare I say love was put into the creation of SOTA for that to happen…but I saw the smilie!

Personally I think criticism is a good thing as long as it is presented in the right spirit, and, in view of the modus operandi of the MT, as long as you don’t expect a rapid response!

73

Brian G8ADD

58

In reply to SV1COX:

"P.S. SPAM: “Spamming is the abuse of electronic messaging systems to indiscriminately send unsolicited bulk messages.” "

"“unsolicited”: Definition: unasked for "

ACK

“Sorry but it is at least SPAM nothing more.”

NACK

Spam is something that you get unsolicited, you did not ask for to get it.

Reading this thread and answering to this thread is something you want to do (opt-in), so it’s not spam.

73 Norby

59

In reply to LX1NO:

Dear Norby

maybe u need to read my message again.

I reply to this thread (as i declare from the start) because i feel offended FROM the SPAM coming from all those making speculations and ctiticism on SOTA about rules which still are not exist.

To your point of view we found the best anti-spam, filter ever: dont read your email :slight_smile:

Please dont take it like an answer because if we start to discuss about what this reflector is about, or maybe my chillhood and the days i ride my first bike or what is SPAM i will become a part of what i blame.

So answer whatever you like don’t except an answer from me. My email is on QRZ.COM.

best regards
Panos, SV1COX

60

In reply to SV1COX:

Maybe you should make a difference between a public thread and a private email, which this thread, by definition, is not, so, it’s not spam.

73 Norby