In reply to G4MD:
I’ve spotted the trick question Mikel… if scoring in dB’s you’d have
adders not multipliers…
Well, I’m claiming points bonus for that then :o)
Adrian
G4AZS
Hi
Who will get the cheese?
HB9BCB is getting it for Switzerland! Nevertheless, we have enough of cheese in our country!
73 de HB9BIN, Juerg
It was me that came up with the scoring formula Mickey. Judging by the popularity of the Challenge, I think it has been appropriate. Andy challenged me to design something that rewarded 12m activity (QSOs) but also activating lots of different hills.
I presume it is the multiplier you object to?
Tom M1EYP
In reply to M1EYP:
I presume it is the multiplier you object to?
Not just me, Tom.
As an example, a SOTA Activator, who is retired, approached me at the Kempton Park Rally, last year and I quote, said, “I would have loved to have taken part in the 12m challenge, but we have so few hills around these parts and my pension certainly won’t stretch to putting £50 in the fuel tank every week.”
There could “NEVER” be a level playing field with the use of multipliers. Here in the UK we don’t have 10 point drive on summits and we certainly would be hard pushed to activate ten summits in a day …day after day.
Therefore, the obvious way to make the challenge fair, was by placing the emphasis on the “skill of radio operating,” something which “no” Activator can get escape from.
Must be a dream for the CW ops…
And by skillful radio operating, I don’t mean working the same Chaser on two different modes and claiming double points. I’m of the opinion that 12m Challenge points should be earned, not handed over on a plate.
It was me that came up with the scoring formula Mickey.
Oh Really!!!
Judging by the popularity of the Challenge, I think it has been appropriate
You would do well to take a look at my inbox, Tom. Some of the comments I’ve received about the 12m Challenge scoring system, certainly would not be allowed on this Reflector.
73 Mike
2E0YYY
In reply to 2E0YYY:
Its not a matter of life and death, Mike. Some of us neither know or care what our scores are!
How would challenge points be “earned”? By being in the right place at the right time as dictated by solar activity, the state of the ionosphere, the time of day and the season. By spending long periods on summits. By clocking up numbers of summit activations. By using high power and/or narrow-band modes. By being on the band when other people are on the band - but not too many of them if you are QRP! By operating skill in marginal conditions. It goes on…
I defy anybody to put together a set of rules to make sense out of that mish-mash! Any set of rules will be arbitrary and will not please everybody. There are some that think that your modus operandi is not proper SOTA, Mike, but its different strokes for different folks!
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G8ADD:
Easy Brian, the correct rules are the rules that result in Micky winning. Simples!
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to 2E0YYY:
Mickey, you just need to think “outside the box”, then the 12m challenge becomes easy. All you need is a single activator QSO and you are guaranteed last place - a position of note. I have been equalled, but I cannot be beaten!
Now just waiting for 1st June so that I can start to explore 12m without ruining my challenge score …
73 de Les, G3VQO
In reply to MM0FMF:
In reply to G8ADD:
Easy Brian, the correct rules are the rules the result in Micky
winning. Simples!
I’m afraid your last remark is not even worthy of comment, Andy.
73 Mike
2E0YYY
In reply to 2E0YYY:
Not one single message has been received by the MT saying the scoring is unfair. Not one. I could point to many, many comments suggesting what a good idea it was.
The fact these comments appear 362 days into a 365 day event means I shall treat them with the utter and complete contempt they deserve.
Andy
MM0FMF
Hi all,
maybe a idea for the next challenge.
count only qso´s are made ! its an activity challenge and it should support
activity…nothing else.
so please no multiplier with activating as many summits as possible.
so also activators from areas with not so many summits to reach have a
real chance !
so many many miles are driven and many fuel is blowing out into nature
only because these multipliers…
only just an idea…maybe count dxcc´c, associations or something else as
multiplier
vy 73 Klaus DF2GN
In reply to MM0FMF:
Andy,
I don’t think it is a matter of fairness as such and I think I am low enough down the tables to be reasonably unbiased. I have not opted out but have not tried very hard.
Activator summit multipliers have to be an unsatisfactory component of a challenge for several reasons, partly geographical and partly ethical.
I hope Barry, M0IML / MW0IML will not mind if I use him as an example. This year his chances of obtaining any reasonable score were minimal (I haven’t looked it up, so I have no idea what his score actually is). Had the same rules applied to a challenge staged a year earlier he would have had 60 summits within reasonable driving distance giving him a fair chance of doing well without disproportionate effort or expense.
The ethical bit - what a waste of fuel!
73,
Rod
In reply to DF2GN:
Hi Klaus - good idea!
I`m in Landau in June & may do a few DM/BW summits if you want to come tick hunting again.
In reply to HB9BCB:
The fact that the database displays your score for you - if you bother to look - does not make participation mandatory, much less constitute a declaration of a mandate. It is just there as an aid to those who are interested in their score, they don’t have to read it. Anyway, isn’t it better to have a reliable program derive your score rather than depend on participants claims that then have to be manually checked, using the valuable time of volunteers?
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G8ADD:
Agreed Brian. In any case, you have opted in if you have registered on the Database and entered some 12m SOTA logs!
More on the multiplier thing. It was felt that the S2S award already rewarded activators who did a small number of summits. For the Challenge, we needed more recognition of those who put on a greater variety of summits for chasers.
Both the S2S award and the Challenge offer an opportunity for further scoring from already activated summits within a calendar year, something that SOTA never previously had. In the S2S award, the emphasis is with the contacts, while in the Challenge it is with the summits activated. Both sections reward both aspects but in different weightings effectively. It would be wrong IMO for both to be fully weighted towards QSOs, or indeed summits.
In any case, look at the activators that have set the pace in the Challenge. Surely noone will begrudge the achievements of OK1DVM, OK1DIG, HB9BCB, DF2GN and G1INK. Proof that the scoring has got it right if you ask me.
Tom M1EYP
In reply to M1EYP:
Hi,
I’d just like to say how much I enjoyed taking part in the 12m challenge, and not only when competitions were on. I really appreciate it and thanks to all my contacts and the MT for setting the challenge.
It was a super idea and although I came to it too late to match Andy (distant second, but in no way competitive!), it did help to get me out on the hill and I even used it outside my home association; and not only when my 20m antenna got trashed.
Look forward to the next challenge.
Perhaps adulthood is overrated! But like Andy, how would I know?
Now, dByears older or dB years older?!!!
Colwyn MM0YCJ