In reply to G0VOF:
Hehe,
I know what you mean - kept my calls short and occasional. At least John did manage to pull a good number of UK chaser calls out of the soup!
I sometimes wish I hadn’t sold my linear at such times LOL.
At least I did manage to work Robin on 40m.
73 Graham G4FUJ
Guys -
Here’s my recommendation: WORK SPLIT. SOTA is becoming a victim of it’s own success, which is a GOOD thing! But like any ‘rare DX’ who is running 2W or 5W and gets spotted, the pileup quickly covers him up and things get out of control fast. Activators should send their callsign only then ‘UP 1’ and a simple ‘TU’ at the end of each QSO - that will solve the problem. The faster the Activator gets through the pileup, the smaller the pileup gets, and the easier it is for everyone. Once every 5-minutes the Activator can give a longer ID including the SOTA reference to keep everyone up to date, such as ‘HB9/KE3X/P on SOTA HB/VD-049 QRZ UP 1’. Short and sweet.
Also I would recommend to keep the QSO’s much shorter - there’s no reason that a SOTA Activator can’t make QSO’s at a rate of 20-seconds each, or 180-per hour working split with 2W or 5W on CW, even at only 25wpm. Too often I hear the Chasers sending both callsigns, greeting Activators by name, asking how breakfast was, how’s the view from the summit, sending CUL, GL, 73, blah, blah … all at 20-wpm, then 2 minutes are gone and everyone is more frustrated. Better to keep the ragchewing in the pub and the on Reflector afterwards after you’re off the summit.
Perhaps Roy or someone could draft a sticky ‘SOTA Pileup Etiquette’ post on the Reflector - that might help. These comments are specific to 40-meter CW, where I do 99% of my Chasing, but 40-meter SSB would also benefit from SPLIT operation. But the time to reinforce better operating standards is now. Once sunspots improve in a few years and SOTA catches on in the U.S., the mess will just get worse. Also SPLIT still allows 2 SOTA Activators at once, transmitting 3-khz apart:
7.030: Activator 1 Xmit
7.031: Activator 1 Receive
7.032: space
7.033: Activator 2 Xmit
7,034: Activator 2 Receive
73, Ken KE3X
Too often I hear the Chasers sending both callsigns, greeting Activators by name, asking how breakfast was, how’s the view from the summit, sending CUL, GL, 73, blah, blah … all at 20-wpm
I don’t see any of that as a bad thing! SOTA isn’t a contest or a rare DXpedition, but it does have a sense of fraternity and friendship. As a lone activator on a cold windy summit, I like hearing the calls from chasers that call me by my name and include encouraging friendly comments; it helps me practice my CW reading as well.
Nothing wrong with 20wpm! It took me ages to get through the “barriers” at 11wpm and again at 18wpm, so 20wpm is good! I have now admitted defeat in my quest to send faster CW from summits. I have been sending at 24, 26 and 27wpm on activations for a few months, but things aren’t improving, and I’m making too many mistakes. For the 2m CW contest at the weekend I went back to 22wpm and found this much more comfortable. Think I’ll stay there for a while!
SPLIT still allows 2 SOTA Activators at once
Looking at your plan for 7.030 to 7.034kHz, I’m tempted to suggest that working simplex allows 5 SOTA activators at once!
Tom M1EYP
In reply to M1EYP:
Tom,
when taking about 40m QRGs let me remind you the new IARU Reg.1 bandplan - why self-limit to 7,035 - and keep 7,030 free for QRP traffic.
73,
Gerd.
Indeed Gerd, I was just resonding to the previous post.
Tom
Hi Ken KE3X de G4OBK Phil
Not only is your 180 QSO per hour level quite a challenge for even the most experienced of Op’s (especially if they are trying to keep control of a pile up with their 5 watts of fleapower), it’s not required as the SOTA pile ups in EU on 40m usually dry up at the 50-75 QSO level at present in my experience, and that if using 50-100w from the summit. The QSO rate is less than that if using QRP as many Op’s can’t hear your signals. Also whilst many of the activators are capable of doing rates at that level even using split if they so wish, many of the chasers are not quick and savvy enough to operate that way, so things get slowed down. Most SOTA chasers are not Dxers or contesters,although some are very experienced operators.
Like Tom I also like to call people by name if my memory and comfort on the summit allows, it only takes 2-3 seconds per QSO anyway to pass someones name and a 73 greeting.
Cheers,
Phil
180-per hour working split with 2W or 5W on CW, even at only 25wpm.
Ah, I see it on paper now. Only experienced high-speed ops need apply.
Perhaps there should be the occasional warm dry summer day (if only!) when a max speed of say 15wpm was mandatory.
Like Tom, I have a speed block, only mine is at about 12wpm. I’ve only had a few successfull chases at this speed and dare not try an activation. I suppose the only alternative is to replace my straight key with a computer keyboard and cw software.
73s Dave, G6DTN
In reply to KE3X:
Also I would recommend to keep the QSO’s much shorter - there’s no reason
that a SOTA Activator can’t make QSO’s at a rate of 20-seconds each, or 180-
per hour working split with 2W or 5W on CW, even at only 25wpm. Too often I
hear the Chasers sending both callsigns, greeting Activators by name, asking
how breakfast was, how’s the view from the summit, sending CUL, GL, 73, blah,
blah … all at 20-wpm, then 2 minutes are gone and everyone is more
frustrated. Better to keep the ragchewing in the pub and the on Reflector
afterwards after you’re off the summit.
I’m sorry, Ken, but that’s not what I came to SOTA for. If I want rubber-stamp QSOs at a rate of 3 or 4 a minute, I can go back to chasing DX-peditions or contesting on the HF bands.
I actually ENJOY the exchange of names, the fellowship and the courtesy of the personal touch between chasers and activators on SOTA. It is not a contest. If people can’t bear to wait that extra minute, perhaps they are in the wrong hobby? Also, for many activators, the hill-walking is the major event of the day; the amateur radio aspect is secondary. That is their choice.
Horses for courses, as we say in the UK! Hi hi!
73,
Walt (G3NYY)
In reply to G3NYY:
Yes Walt, I agree. (Am talking SSB here - though the thread has already opened up to that anyway, and Ken also suggested split for SSB in a pile up.)
My home QTH is pretty awful in the city - even 2m SSB gets splattered with all sorts of electrical/electronic noise and HF is very difficult indeed - I live in a flat, and have only a tiny postage stamp garden deep between the buildings. So I found working from the hills (as I did back in 1978) a great relief, and have had many a pleasant rag chew from a sunny summit. Discovering SOTA a year or so ago was great, it meant lots more people to talk to from the hills and I started to get to know people by name.
It’s still very pleasant to have even just a little bit more than the bang bang contest style exchange when you’re on the summit; otherwise it feels a bit like simply providing a service for collectors.
So I’m afraid I’ll continue to be a fairly slow operator from summits, and will always be greatly pleased to hear who it is talking to me and where they are. If I ever encounter the huge sort of pile up I found yesterday again then I will maybe try Ken’s “split” suggestion, but finding a suitable hole not too far away in frequency to listen in on 40m is not always that easy. I’m not in the hunt for pileups though, and do agree with Walt that, for me, SOTA is not a contest. The hill walking is what gets me up there - the amateur radio on the summits is great fun and adds to the day. If it stops being fun I’ll stop doing it.
73
John GM8OTI
In reply to KE3X:
Hi Ken,
This topic has been discussed already before. No problem with the split if you want to do that. You could even put it to the alert or self-spot, for example “0/4-6 DWN”.
73, Jaakko OH7BF/F5VGL
Hi All -
Looks like I struck a nerve with my ‘180 QSOs per hour’ comment 
Didn’t mean to question the ‘laid back’ value proposition of SOTA - I just used the extreme example to illustrate the point that when you have a weak signal, split helps everyone. If split-freq operation were more commonly used by the Activators, I am sure that Chasers would become comfortable with the technique very quickly (almost all rigs now have a RIT knob - that’s all you need for a 1-2 khz differential anyway). Actually I think it’s great that SOTA has so many ops that are proficient in CW at 20-wpm, expecially in the new era of no-code licenses!
73 and cu all in the pileups, Ken
In reply to G3NYY:
I do agree with you Walt about rubber stamp qso’s, I have always kept away from contests for that reason, but on the other hand, in a pile up I guess that replies could be restricted accordingly. I have only recently taken up the SOTA challenge and find it both fascinating and challenging, but the cw contacts have proved to be very frustrating due to the some of chasers calling over the both the activators call and chasers replies.
I have only made one cw qso into Europe because of the difficulty in determining whether the previous qso had been completed due to those calling prematurely. It is possible that spotting does tend to cause many stations to swoop at the same time and that due to limited operation time there can very little control over this, since it’s generally in the hands of the operators trying to make their selves heard.
This is just a Reflection, I can’t think what the answer would be, apart from
maybe getting the word to all that there is no panic, no rush to get points, it isn’t a contest, only a contact and these stations will be there again and again, just try and be patient and enjoy your cw!!.
Chris
In reply to KE3X:
Ken, I thought you were, like myself, still hearing 30wpm CW from last weekeend’s SS!
In reply to G0SDD:
Hi Chris
There is one reason to rush from an activators point of view - when he/she is trying to cram in two or three activations from different summits on a winters day before it gets too dark, or if it’s cold and wet, maybe very windy and possibly getting dangerous (hypothermia maybe), so you just want to get your points, make as many chasers happy as you can in the limited time available and then get off the summit as soon as possible! Been there, done that several times.
73 Phil
In reply to G4OBK:
I raised the bandplan issue with the G-QRP Club, and it is now on their reflector, including this response from John Gould G3WKL HF Manager with the RSGB:
We have as you will know publicised the new band plan quite widely using a variety of media at our disposal. One of the problems is that not all Region 1 administrations have amended their licence; I believe for example we are still awaiting France to implement the upper 100kHz. Thus, we will get some residual effects with SSB and datamodes in some countries as they are not able to move up as the new band plan allows.
We also have the issue of waiting for Region 2 to play catch-up. They re-set their band plan to align better with Region 2, a few months before we made our change. We realised that any change that we made in Region 1 would have a knock-on transition effect, but decided to re-allocate the additional spectrum to all of the modes rather than merely extend the “All modes” segment. Colin can probably confirm, but the Region 2 General Conference could be in 2010. The is the opportunity when major revisions to band plans can be made.
It would be timely, I feel, to draft a small item for RadCom to remind UK Amateurs of the continuing transition period, and where calling CQ to aim to operate as the new band plan and existing QSOs allow. Before doing so I’ll post a short e-mail on our Region 1 HF Manager’s reflector to check which countries have yet to implement the additional 100kHz, and suggest that where this has taken place that they might add a reminder in their Society’s magazine, website, etc.
I trust that Ken and others can be patient a little longer!
73
Ken GI4FLG
In reply to GI4FLG:
Although not, strictly speaking, in contravention of the bandplan, the activities of some DX-peditions do not help those who are interested in QRP, SOTA, etc.
Yesterday I tried to activate G/WB-021 on 10 MHz and 7 MHz CW. XV4A was on 10.115 MHz, listening UP. His pile-up extended from 10.116 to 10.125 MHz, so encompassing all the popular SOTA working frequencies.
Worse, TX3A was on 7.025 MHz, listening between 7.030 and 7.040 MHz. The enormous European pile-up completely obliterated all the preferred QRP and SOTA frequencies in Europe.
I know we have no prior claim to any particular frequency or sub-band, but I am becoming increasingly tired of the thoughtless and selfish actions of some DX-peditions who monopolise large segments of the bands by listening with a wide split and over a large spread, with no regard to existing QSOs on these frequencies. These practices used to be confined to SSB, but they are now becoming prevalent on CW as well.
73 de Walt (G3NYY)
In reply to G3NYY:
Hi Walt,
These practices used to be confined to SSB
I don’t understand why, can you explain ?
73 Alain F6ENO
In reply to GI4FLG:
“I trust that Ken and others can be patient a little longer!”
No worries, mate. By the way, last weekend I made several SOTA QSO’s while also playing around in the OK/OM CW Contest as a Single-Band 40-Meter LP entry (yeah, I know … “Eeek! A CONTESTER? Ban him from the reflector!” But happily I have VA2SG in my corner to defend me
All kidding aside, what I noticed was that most SOTA activators simply moved to 10Mhz once it became obvious that the 7.030-7.035 area was filled with OK’s and OM’s until 1200Z Sunday. Then it was easy to make my Chaser QSO’s, since 10Mhz had much less QRN and QRM.
40-meter CW is crowded and a ‘core band’ for DXpeditions, so I don’t think that issue will ever go away. The fact that DXpeditions use split-frequency operation reinforces my earlier posting: split (UP1) can be very efficient for 5-watt SOTA activators too. Operating split also helps counteract ‘poor CW operating etiquette’, which was the original topic of this Reflector thread. Specifically, split removes the problem of Chasers transmitting on top of a weak Activator and covering him up.
73, Ken KE3X