In reply to M1EYP:
Hi all,
Do you really think that working by numbers will discourage aligators…?
The only way for a chaser is split operation (when the pile up is too huge) and have big ears… (not big mouth 
73 Alain F6ENO
In reply to F6ENO:
no, but at least it reduces the number of callers!
Working split does not stop them from repeating their call again and again and again you are just listening to the same problem 5 or 10 up, plus personally I think split on bands like 40m is not good as you are taking up two frequencies on what is already a congested band.
In reply to M1EYP:
As no-one has mentioned the DX Code of Conduct yet, so I will.
Take a look at http://www.dx-code.org/ and recommend it to others when appropriate.
The activator is in charge of his / her ‘pile-up’, and it is up to the activator to employ whatever technique(s) he/she thinks is appropriate.
Personally, I don’t like the ‘going by numbers’; I have lost out by propagation dis-appearing on me too many times whilst waiting for the ‘magic’ number to be called.
Working split with a controlled spread of say “1 to 2 up” or “1 to 3 up” is much preferable. An open-ended UP UP as used by some DX expeditions e.g. ZL8X on 40 mtrs CW as I type this, is counter productive. Too many stations start asking ‘what’s the split ?’ etc. on the expeditions frequency. Take a listen on 7022.5 on the ZL8X’s freq and you will get my drift.
My t’pence worth!
73 and good luck in the pile-up
Ken
In reply to GM0AXY:
To keep things moving, how about going by numbers but only working a limited number of stations in each number - say, take six zeros, six ones, six twos etc?
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G8ADD:
That might work in some cases so long as there is an approximately equal number of callers within each number. Which, in my opinion, is highly unlikely. In reality you will end up with working 6 off 4’s, 7 off 0’s and only 1 off 8’s (guess who the 8 might be!), and then be accused of being biased fore or against some numbers.
I have in the past run DX Nets on the HF bands, and believe me, to get callers from some countries to even recognise their own prefix or the number in their callsigns can be problematic. The only universal instruction that appears to work when things get hectic is to state “Listening 3 to 5 up” or whatever is appropriate for the situation.
73 de Ken
In reply to G8ADD:
I have heard that done and it seems to work but as was said it down to the operator to keep a tight grip on things.
It is interesting when looking at the DX Code of conduct, it seems during a pileup some operators follow every single recommendation to the T, but sadly exactly opposite 
Darius OK7OK
Maybe I don’t get it, but from the WFF rules I got an impression that every FF location counts only once, there are no points for multiple QSOs with the same FF, like in SOTA, right? Why there are the pileups then?
I was thinking about making special QSL cards for OKFF-018 Krivoklatsko and operating from SOTA and non-SOTA locations there, it is my favorite hiking area not far from Prague, but it will be no rare FF, so I’m not sure if it is worth ordering a batch of 800 cards, hi.
Marek OK9HAG
In reply to OK9HAG:
Maybe I don’t get it, but from the WFF rules I got an impression that
every FF location counts only once, there are no points for multiple
QSOs with the same FF, like in SOTA, right? Why there are the pileups
then?
My guess is that most locations are still “New Ones” for WFF.
I was surprised that, when I activated Butser Hill (G/SE-004) this was the first time it had been activated as GFF-120.
Likewise, my activation of Black Down (G/SE-003) was the first South Downs qualifier (GFF-018) even though there are several SOTA summits in the SDNP
Ditto Wendover Woods (G/CE-005) falls within GFF-058… and I’ve bagged the first claim.
I suspect that once the novelty wares off, then normality will resume - IOTA “New Ones” get lots of attention, but regular activations are just hum-drum 
Andrew
In reply to OK7OK:
Working split does not stop them from repeating their call again and
again and again you are just listening to the same problem 5 or 10 up … <
The main point when working SPLIT is activator to be heard on the clear.
This is always of big help for skillful chasers, and sometimes may help “bad chasers” too.
Activator must to give his call sign and operating instructions frequently and to maintain the rhythm of operation. When the majority of chasers see the self confident activator whose operating style is promising that all of them at the end will work him, than the things will calm down. Otherwise they will continue to call in panic.
JA operators are the best in the pile-up, but they are to far away for our weak SOTA or WFF signals(hi).
Vlado, Z35M
In reply to M1EYP:
So, carried out my own WFF experiment today with the activation of OKFF-008 and from the experience gained today I think one can make life much more easier for ones self by keeping the two activations SOTA/WFF separate as the operating criteria for both are different and if one has to deal with the pileups caused by WFF I personally would prefer not to have to deal with other elements (wx etc…) at the same time
Made 102 contacts, started with 20m which was somewhat noisy with QRN, then dropped to 40m, well ……, some of you may have heard the appalling deliberate QRM that was being caused by some clowns, which was quite sad because they where making life for the weaker stations more difficult not for me, I could hear the strong stations right thought them and I think that is what made them give up after 10 minutes, but I have to put this right up in the top 10 worst behavior I have ever heard on the amateur bands.
If you are a WCA (World Castles Award) chaser it will also be good as I was close (600m) from Kokorin Castle (OK-01080)
Had to cut the activation short by 2 hours as it started to snow quite heavily and it was sticking, and not a gritter in sight, return journey took over 2 hours (normally just a 1 hour journey).
Darius OK7OK
In reply to OK7OK and others:
Aside from the problem of pile-ups (do the “alligators” even check whether they are really clamouring for a “new one”, or do they just call for calling’s sake?) there remains the fact that one and the same location may indeed count for several awards. It would probably cost too much time to mention all references on the air anyway. Were I to activate some unusual place, I might be tempted only to tell those references on air that are required by the circumstances, and put everything else (IOTA, CASHOTA, WFF, EU-POAR, lighthouse, WAB, …) that I can find out about the place on the QSL card if I am going to send one. Paper is patient, and some of this information might be a nice surprise for the recipient
Besides, it is not too difficult to find out on a map what a location may count for if you are interested, and then you can ask the activator for confirmation. The good thing about a SOTA reference is that it usually specifies your location rather precisely. I suppose that there is a lot of “hidden information” about places that the activators themselves may not be aware of at the time of operation, but can find out once they are back. What you already know, you can announce beforehand.
Some award programmes allow the submission of activator logs - paper chasers can check on-line there whether they are in the log, or which logs they happen to have landed in (if e. g. your SOTA hill is in a WFF area, why not submit your log to both lists?). Some operators offer their own log checks, too. Again, there is no need for a lot of on-the-air announcements if there are other ways of finding out. What I do not like, however, is the confirmation of contacts without any cross-checking; I should also like to see the confirmation feature return to the SOTA database.
73, Jan-Martin
In reply to M0CEF:
“(if e. g. your SOTA hill is in a WFF area, why not submit your log to both lists?).”
This is fine, however it takes a bit of detective work on the part of the activator, for example if you operate from G/NP-005 Ingleborough from anywhere in the activation zone, you are not within the GFF area for Ingleborough National Nature Reserve. There may be more of these anomalies, however I`ve not checked them.
Another thing that niggles me when I manage to attract a pileup whilst activating, is the growing number of alligators that force their way in, once you`ve exchanged reports they then ask “what is your call please?” 
73 from Buxton, -4C now, -11C tonight & 35cm lying snow.
In reply to G1INK:
This is fine, however it takes a bit of detective work on the part of the activator …
True, but isn’t the detective work part of the fun? 
73, Jan-Martin
I rarely announce my WAB, IOTA and ISWL information. It is usually to hand if requested. Most appears on my QSL card though.
I am sure people can easily work out WFF, WAB, locator, IOTA etc information from a SOTA reference.
Tom M1EYP
In reply to M0CEF:
I should also like to see the confirmation feature return to the SOTA database.
It’s rather an intensive load on the server which is why it was disabled. However, it and some other often requested features are on the wish list. Watch this space is all I can say.
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to M0CEF:
"(if e. g. your SOTA hill is in a WFF area, why not submit your log to both lists?)."
from my understanding of the WFF regulations you can not just submit the list, you are suppose to notify the WFF person responsible for the region a few days in advance and send evidence (in form of a picture) that your have been there.
So I am not sure if you don’t do the above if they will accept the list or not.
Darius OK7OK
In reply to OK7OK:
I think each WFF region has it`s own rules. Certainly in G WFF there is no need to inform the manager in advance although it would probably result in a larger pileup if you did. I submitted a pic for my first activation, but not for my second one. I told the manager if he needed a pic I would provide one & he said not to bother. Looking at the GM WFF site, it seems that you also need to produce a special qsl to validate each seperate activation / area. Not sure I could be bothered to do that.
For ale lovers - just had a nice pint of “It looks like rain dear” from Storm Brewing Macclesfield. mmmm
In reply to G1INK:
I belive that it would be best to send a photo as everyone is aware of the issues this last year with certain stations shouting cheat prove it on SOTA WFF and WAB .
As you say let the manager know after getting the required contacts if doing a double activation before being fed to the sharks.
Roger G0TRB