Dunno why you should think that, Tom?
Of course I would [support future 2m SOTA events]. I’m just reporting facts [then vs now] not expressing an opinion.
You ignored Gerald’s point that for many of us, it’s not convenient or possible to do our SOTA activations when [2m] contests are on. Combining SOTA with contests clearly suits you Tom but please accept that’s not true for others. So, I and others have to work with non-contest/event ad-hoc 2m activity as we find it.
A secondhand one got me doing portable QRP SSB and practice CW QSOs in the 90’s [with a patient GM0] that helped me get ready for the Morse test. Happy Days!
Of course I accept that. But what I don’t accept is grumbling that activity is declining - but only after discounting all the activity that happens not to suit your personal taste or at less convenient times!
Although in fact it is easily demonstrated that even with all that undesired activity ignored, 2m SSB ad hoc activity is still NOT in decline.
plonk
I wouldn’t go as far as to say “quite the reverse”, but there is indeed counterintuitive evidence of a small progressive increase in SOTA SSB activity on 2m since its nadir about 2010. The increase has some way to go before it matches the percentage in the early days of SOTA, when there were far fewer activators. I can’t say that I see all that many spots for 2m SSB, which may support the suggestion that it is contest driven where spots are discouraged.
Brian, you made the same [valid] points on the previous two (or was it three?) times you, me and others had this 2m activity debate with Tom. And so did I. The thing is, we didn’t manage to convince Tom then and it looks like we won’t now.
Tom’s argument (now and previously) is essentially “Quit moaning and get out there during 2m contests/special events”. Well, we know we’re not moaning [that’s a false premise] and most of us can’t time our activations to coincide with contests due to personal circumstances.
Tom also tries to make his point by comparing recent 2m SOTA activations with SOTA activity in the early years. And as others pointed out [the last time we discussed this Groundhog Day topic] if we were able to analyze the SOTA 2m QSOs database by date/time-of-day much of the activity would correspond to contests especially for SSB and CW.
It’s hard for many [younger or more recent licensees] to imagine how busy 2m was in those former decades and with the greater preponderance of SSB and CW rather than FM in the way you recalled, Brian.
So, for those of us who activate when we have the time/the weather is okay/etc. - in my case Monday-Friday mid morning to mid afternoon - 2m FM QSOs are very dependent on having enough participants and in my case, some dedicated regular chasers (who see my alerts).
Tom’s other point is, make your own [2m] event(s) to drum up activity. That’s fine if you have the time and inclination, but I find that the activity is often short-lived if it operates in a limited geographic area (for those of us who won’t routinely carry and set up 2m Yagis). I like HF because I don’t have to pre-arrange anything nor request others to take part - it’s spontaneous.
A converse illustration is the 10m Challenge [thanks Andy @MM0FMF] because a huge number of activators and chasers can easily participate and it’s not pegged to a particular day so interest and activity may well last the whole year.
Looking at my SOTA activity by band, 2m is still in front but 30m is not far behind and is likely to overtake it.
I’ve said pretty much all I want to say now. I know this won’t be the last word on this debate.
I’ve just checked today’s spots (I have it set to the last 200) and I counted 12 spots for 2m FM, 3 spots for 2m CW, and not one for 2m SSB. I intend to repeat this exercise fairly frequently to see if today is a one-off or a true indication.
It is true that the DB shows a reasonable level of 2m SSB activations and a slow increase in them, the question is “where the heck are they?” I guess probably the contest and activity nights accounts for most of this activity, its probably all concentrated in a few days/nights each month, which is OK but no substitute for regular routine activity spread through the month.
That’s what we need to establish. You’re both making sweeping assumptions that the bulk of the 2m SSB activity is contest activity. As far as I am aware, the only UK participant that combines contest 2m SSB contest activity with a SOTA activation - is me! And like I say, strip me out of the analysis and I don’t believe the pattern changes. I know Stuart G1ZAR has combined, but not for a good while. I think there is a German activator that combines too, but it is very much the exception than the rule. That’s my perception as someone who is heavily involved in the VHF contest scene anyway.
I’ve now looked into this.
I filtered the Activator honour roll for All G, 2024, 144MHz, SSB. I then looked down the list of callsigns. I found one active contester that I recognised - me!
I then looked at the individual logs in more detail. There are plenty of instances where the 2m SSB portion of an activation might only be 1 or 2 QSOs. So while the number of activators using 2m SSB is undeniably on the increase, both in the UK and globally, and sane for the number of activations, the actual activity as measured by the unit of the 2m SSB QSO, might not reflect that. (But I don’t know; it might; I haven’t analysed the QSO numbers).
This is not such a bad position though. It is established that the number of activators using 2m SSB is increasing, and generally they are NOT contesters. The number of activations where 2m SSB is included is also increasing, and generally they are NOT combination activities with contesting. So the potential is there if the activators and chasers can get their acts together and be aware of each others’ presence!
Ultimately, there is only one proven route to success. That is for an activator to repeatedly activate using the band-mode combination they wish to get established / re-established, probably without including other band-modes, posting regularly on the reflector, building up enthusiasm and a bit of a community, more activators involved, multi summit skeds etc - and keep doing it, again and again and again, and not getting downbeat if things don’t happen immediately.
I’ve done this myself, successfully, over the years with things like 2m CW, simplex Fusion, PSK31, FT8/FT4 etc.
I would do a proof-of-concept and do it with 2m SSB - but TBH I’ve no interest in it unless it’s a contest… 
| ActivationYear | # 2m SSB QSOs NO-M1EYP |
|---|---|
| 2002 | 52 |
| 2003 | 870 |
| 2004 | 4230 |
| 2005 | 5925 |
| 2006 | 7285 |
| 2007 | 11332 |
| 2008 | 11063 |
| 2009 | 11331 |
| 2010 | 9878 |
| 2011 | 8043 |
| 2012 | 5677 |
| 2013 | 5040 |
| 2014 | 4399 |
| 2015 | 4828 |
| 2016 | 6052 |
| 2017 | 7338 |
| 2018 | 8635 |
| 2019 | 9275 |
| 2020 | 10861 |
| 2021 | 13578 |
| 2022 | 11284 |
| 2023 | 10092 |
| 2024 | 1214 |
| ActivationYear | # 2m SSB QSOs With-M1EYP |
|---|---|
| 2002 | 52 |
| 2003 | 898 |
| 2004 | 4271 |
| 2005 | 5976 |
| 2006 | 7314 |
| 2007 | 11466 |
| 2008 | 11219 |
| 2009 | 12000 |
| 2010 | 10455 |
| 2011 | 9060 |
| 2012 | 6050 |
| 2013 | 5870 |
| 2014 | 5362 |
| 2015 | 5573 |
| 2016 | 6746 |
| 2017 | 7788 |
| 2018 | 9205 |
| 2019 | 9957 |
| 2020 | 11496 |
| 2021 | 13818 |
| 2022 | 11665 |
| 2023 | 10642 |
| 2024 | 1214 |
Thanks Andy. Saves me a job!
This is concrete evidence that:
The 2m SSB QSO numbers are NOT mainly contest QSOs.
There is NOT a trend of “neglect” of 2m SSB in “recent years”.
Even though some of the raw numbers are higher, I would acknowledge that recent years are not at the level of 2007-2010, as the SOTA world was smaller back then. However, in terms of the trend of recent years, we can clearly see that fears of a decline are unfounded.
Interesting stats but as usual leaves me wanting more (no, you don’t have to produce them unless you’re bored) 
Would be interesting to see the above (with EYP included and for all associations) alongside total activator qsos, total number of activations and total number of active associations for each year. Would also be interesting to see when the summit-to-summit tracking was introduced. I’d ask if it were possible to have access to the data (anonymised of course) and try to tie it into my end of module data analysis project but since we’ve been given one data set we must use (broadband coverage over time in the UK) , I doubt I could find a link to answer a question related to 2m SSB usage 
However you mangle the above data, it does show that there is more activity on 2m SSB from its low point in 2013 (excluding the very early years). Possible reasons for the decline 2007-2014
More associations with tempting dx
Other than the FT-817/8 few options for portable vhf ssb (although this is summit dependant - I could take my Ft-736R up billinge hill if I so desired).
Cost of older equipment is high compared with new (FT-290R on ebay about £125 - can get 8 quanshengs for that price, or 2 FT-4x)
Summit to summit tracking - aligned with point 1, there is more options with HF. Personally, I’m not sure how I feel about s-t-s although I am a sucker for them on the rare outings I manage. Of all the qso types available, a s-t-s qso is probably one of the easier ones to complete. On vhf (ssb at least) they almost are a guaranteed qso with any other summit within a region, and for some associations within those too. Generally on HF the noise floor is very low which seems to totally negate the drop in power. At my home (other the 10m which isn’t too bad) I have S5 noise on most bands (S7 on 40m) - a drop to S1 noise on summit gives me 4S points to play with which is equivalent to a 5W station increasing to 80W. Again this from my rare outings, and for some reason, I still get satisfaction from them.
Smartphones - the increasing ease of access to sotawatch through various apps allows activators to switch around quickly. This is easier to do on an HF only setup.
On the other side, Tom is correct, it is up to people to get out there and do 2m SSB (or any band mode combination) which it does seem is happening. One good E’s day on 2m and I guess there will be others joining in. The Friday 2m multimode event could work, although for those of us that are still chained to a desk its not an ideal day of the week. I enjoyed the one I did take part in last year from Shining Tor, but unfortunately I can’t do every week. Once something like that gains a bit of traction, they do end to carry on, but it takes a concerted effort by a few to get things going and needs to consistently happen.
Personally, I do like contest and used to take part in them but due to several reasons, I’m no able to consistently get out any more. The addition of a gate on the approach to Winter Hill has made that location impractical due to a much longer walk in for the backpackers series. The activity nights are ok for FM but there is no provision for portable op for the SSB portions that mainly finish in darkness (a portable section results would help that). The late finish is not condusive to those that work or still at school/college. A point of note was the last time I took part in an activity contest was on 70cm and FM was busy , but so was SSB with a number of stations I heard commenting they were running 400W into something ridiculous - made me think “What do they do with the rest of the month?”. Getting some of those interested in SOTA chasing would boost chances (looks back at the effect the Birmingham 3 had on SSB in the early days).
A couple more SSB capable satellites would get me interested real quick too, where you could almost guarantee an available pass for an activation.
Enough from me, I’ve got a project to do . Looks like it will be broadband coverage vs consumption of pancakes , that sounds plausible.
Ian
In the small QRP type packages, what can you buy new?
IC-705
KX3+ internal 2m option
???
Second hand
FT-817
FT-818
FT-290
FT-290MkII
Standard C78
After that you are into bigger old 2m sets FT-480, IC-290, TR-9000, TR-9125. Or big sets like FT-857.
For reasons I don’t know, FT-290 prices are through the roof on eBay. Is there a huge demand for 2m multimodes?
Just an observation. When I started SOTA what I expected to do was 2m SSB, however what I mostly end up doing is HF and 2M FM. The main reasons are antennas and rigs. In terms of antennas I made a 2m 5 ele Yagi which electrically is well behaved, but mechanically is at best temperamental - even in calm conditions. I found that the extra weight of taking an additional horizontally polarised antenna (which normally self disassembled) limited anything else I took along. I’ve also got fussier about what weight I am happy to carry and as I mostly do HF the KX2 is considerably lighter than the FT-817. Anyway that is my excuse for the silence on 144.300 … But there is a question following from this - What do SSB activators use for an antenna as this might encourage me to try again?
Just so you are aware, I am only looking at the figures for all Associations, the UK can look after itself!
Andy’s figures looked at in detail show initial explosive growth to a maximum in 2009, then a marked decline to a minimum in 2014 that is about half of the 2009 figure, then a slow inctrease to a maximum in 2021 followed by a couple of years of slow decline. This pattern is independent of Tom’s contribution! 
The figures clearly show that the 2021 maximum is only 13.4% greater than the 2007 maximum although in 2021 there were roughly seven times more activators takung part. Look at those figures how you will, the underlying truth is that 2m SSB is in a long-term decline in terms of numbers of contacts compared with the number of activators.
It’s inherently difficult for me to talk about 2m SSB outside of Western Europe. In the UK with some effort it’s always viable for SOTA to use 2m SSB, just with current activity. I wouldn’t like to suggest what it’s use would be in VK if you get 200km from the bigger conurbations. I could see 2m SSB be viable in California near large cities but in KL7? W7Y? Likewise ZL may be hard work.
2m SSB is a popular choice among operators on summits around VK1 and nearby VK2.
A quick SQL on the database will give you the detail.
Regards
Andrew VK1AD
Whilst the above statement is true, the absolute number of SSB contacts is increasing. To get a true reflection of what is happening, you would also need to take a view on a lot of other factors.
Only by doing something like that could you say its in decline and even then with caveats. Its similar to the FT8 argument that FT8 is killing ham radio since 90% (an oft quoted figure) of qsos are now FT8. But are there less of other modes? I would suggest not by much. So infact , FT8 could be seen to be having a positive impact as there are more qsos overall , just the ratio of them has changed.
This topic was automatically closed after reaching the maximum limit of 100 replies. Continue discussion at UK operators only: Changes to UK licence (Part 2).
In terms of myself as a moderately well positioned and equipped chaser to an activator on a moderate summit, using SSB to a small beam antenn, I have found 300km reliable and 400 km marginal in flat conditions. Given a decent duct or intense sporadic E several times further can be achieved. The difficulty in achieving this today is that hams with decent VHF beams on a rotator become fewer every year. My set-up needs a new rotator and a careful inspection of the coax and plug, and with the present level of activity I doubt that s worthwhile going to the trouble and expense.