UK 60m Bandplan Footnote on WRC15 frequencies operating practices

What !:fearful: I thought you where a real man into his fine whiskys e.t.c :joy:

Nope. What I can’t understand is why you think it is a “simplified” view, have you actually brought it up and looked at it? It holds a lot of additional detail, it is very easy on the eye, and there is advice on how to use the band.


So if I take a copy of the 60m section of that bandplan - yes it does have a Note 4 - but no were on that page (unless I need a visit to Specsavers) does it tell you the frequency range that applies to.


Are we expected to remember which parts of the band everyone else is allowed to use too ?

I think this is up to date: 60 metre band but remembering it might be a big ask. I’m more inclined to trust that any station calling me is legal! Our responsibility is to make sure we are legal.

You’re right Stewart it doesn’t and probably should. It does, however, tell you where you can transmit and suggests what everyone should use the frequencies for. It doesn’t tell you where you can’t transmit. Nor does the 6m plan say you can’t work any stations you hear on 52-54MHz. This one doesn’t give you power limits for 60m but the 160m one does. There’s lots of places it could be improved.

But this is not about whether the plan is full of areas for improvement but Brian’s intransigence to accept he was looking at a simplified bandplan. He confusion is with the word simplified because the page is scattered with historical info on the old experiments, working cadet stations, how to ensure your transmitted spectrum is in band on SSB or digi modes. The page is full of detail except on the bandplan itself. Hence my use of the words “simplified view”.

You can easily see this, look at the 20m or 40m pages in that section.
Exactly the same presentation, words about the band and usage and a simplified view of the bandplan.

Hi Brian,
The question is are we committing an offence communicating with a known pirate? Which someone is if they operate on a frequency they are not licenced to use. OK in telling to Op he isn’t supposed to operate on the frequency, but more than that? …

What I am a little worried about is that if there continues to be out of band (or channels) operation on 60 metres it may affect all users and the ITU could demand that all countries only allocate the 15KHz WRC band for amateurs so as to stop out of band operations and that would be to the degredation of countries like the UK, who have more frequencies available than just the 15KHz on 60m.

So I think it’s right that this point is raised here, so as to hopefully educate those out of their band operators to stop such operations as their actions could affect many others.

This belongs really on the other thread, but;

You are right, we might be committing an offence, but the crucial question is how do we know that they are pirates? Yes, we can look at 60 metre band or similar if we are in the shack (it might be difficult on a summit) but even that isn’t conclusive. The allocation might have changed very recently and the site not updated yet, or someone might be operating with special permission, and in the heat of a pile-up there isn’t time to go into these things thoroughly. I think that unless we have definite knowledge, such as hearing an Mx3/6 or 2x0 operating, or the German stations in David’s post 4, we should take it on trust that the stations calling us are legal. After all, a UK station using a 1.5kW amplifier is bound to have it cranked down to legal power, isn’t he? :grinning:

The question is are we committing an offence communicating with a known pirate? Which someone is if they operate on a frequency they are not licenced to use. OK in telling to Op he isn’t supposed to operate on the frequency, but more than that? …

The problem here is that you will never actually know what sort of license the other operator has (if any).

60 metre band says that Finland has more range than 5351,5- 5366,5KHz. True, but only with special permission, most hams don´t have it here.Same thing in other countries as well.

Why would one try to control something he can´t. It is the operator who is responsible what frequencies they use, what power they run etc. We are hams, not cops :wink:

73 Marko OH9XX OH3XR

Oh dear, Andy, you STILL haven’t really looked at your so-called “simplified” bandplan, have you? If you compare the two, there is very little on “your” site that isn’t on “mine”, “mine” shows the preferred operating frequencies for USB, and where on “your” bandplan does it show WSPR (not that I actually need that info at this time!)

Come on, Andy, you do like to take your harmless little digs at people, and you should know by this time that I will always dig back!:wink:

Too, too true Brian, this is a moving target. I agree that it will be difficult to know all of the current frequencies - which is why I think David G0EVV did the right thing and informed the DL stations that he thinks they are operating out of band. The problem with them continuing to call despite this information being given is the real problem I believe.


For an intelligent man Brian, you do a good impersonation of a fool.

You cannot Marko. The activator should ensure they are legal. If the activator thinks there are suspicious chaser contacts they can let the chaser know after the activation or let the MT know if the chaser doesn’t confirm they are legal or delete them.

“No noose is good noose!”

ROTFL! Only a member of the MT would get away with such ad hominem remarks on the Reflector.


Well its no good banning him, he can unban himself immediately!

Anyway it is all in fun, I only regret that he said it first…

I think the UK bandplan websites have been fixed so that all places show pages derived from the same version now…

(It does seem faintly daft to offer so many different versions, but whatever…)

For those who have not been able to find the file on the RSGB website - here is the relevant piece:

Please note that “Digital mode activity in the UK” range covers half of the WRC15 band and as such, if the footnote is followed, not to use the overlapping frequencies the section that is specifically for UK data comms is now only 3.5KHz wide not 8KHz - i.e. only 5366.5 - 5370KHz is clear of the WRC15 band.

I have sent a message to the RSGB HF manager asking him to look into this as I expect a lot of digital mode users in the UK to be unhappy with this reduction in their available frequencies. the simplest option would be to move the UK digital data section to be 5366.5 - 5374.5KHz giving them a different 8KHz of space (but less signal width at the top of the band as USB is used).

Lets see what Ian Greenshields, G4FSU (RSGB Band Plans HF manager) comes back with.

“if possible”.

If it’s not possible to avoid the WRC-15 common frequencies, well it’s not possible.

Really? If it’s not possible why have the footnote at all …

You really need to remember the bandplan for UK stations is advisory and not compulsory. In general, bandplans help people by trying segregate modes that don’t make happy bedfellows. They also give suggestions to where certain modes can be found. And that is about that. If I want to run FM on 14.100 MHz over the top of the International Beacon Project there is nothing anyone can do. Sure I would not be popular nor receive the support of my peers but it would be legal. You could claim I was interfering with the beacons and I’d say I opened the squelch on my receiver and listened for 1 whole IBP cycle and heard nothing a suggesting the frequency was in use. I’d be clear to continue. But not popular.

In this case, the wording is a suggestion that UK stations should go somewhere else for inter-UK operation. That’s a reasonable suggestion, we have lots of spectrum compared to some people. Having inter-UK QSOs and blocking the WRC chunks that overlap is somewhat selfish if we can go elsewhere. Normally we can go somewhere else.

But what if all the frequencies are in use? There are 2 weekends in March when there will be lots of Cadet operations on the old FA,FB etc. channels so I may find a distinct lack of free space if amateurs move to other frequencies instead of the old NOV channels. Well I can avoid the WRC overlaps most of the time if I don’t want to specifically work outside of the UK. But when the band is busy it’s not possible to avoid using spectrum that is allocated to me.

The footnote reads fine to me, it’s a suggestion to help organise activity so more of us can use a shared and limited resource. It would be sensible if the overlapping freqs were given. The expression “if possible” is nice allowing a degree of flexibility and accommodation. Sometimes it’s not best to have every T crossed and I dotted. You get to use your skill and judgement as a responsible adult and not blindly follow orders.