You’re currently using an EFHW - you picked from very few options - you have to use a resonant antenna so the lack of tuner forced your hand there. The tuner lets you make an actual choice with many options which is cool, the EFHW/dipole isn’t suitable in all locations.
If its worth the $1000 is down to how you value the advantages really.
Its a lot lighter, its a lot smaller, it has great ears, tuner, much much much much better internal battery (hours and hours of operation), the list goes on (I’m sure you’ve done your research there).
Ultimately the only advantages of the 817 are the price and UHF/VHF/top band access as far as I can tell having both of them (it also looks more rugged but that is hard to quantify, I’d rather drop my 817 but again - its a much cheaper rig…)
How you weight up the value of that is totally up to you!
I’ve told this story before but it is worth repeating. Some time ago I was activating Watch Croft, G/DC-007. The summit is a clitter of granite boulders with a trig point and a shelter ring of roughly placed stones. I had the mast on the trig point and feeder running to the rig on the floor of the shelter. The wind moved the mast, pulling the feeder, and it dislodged a lump of granite about the size of my head. The lump fell a couple of feet straight onto the top cover of my FT817. After I finished cursing I looked at the rig. The damage consisted of a small scratch in the paint and the rig was still working and on frequency. Now I’ve never used a KX2 but I’ve handled one, and though it is a nice compact rig with good specifications I really doubt that it would take a lump of granite weighing, I don’t know, 20 pounds? dropping a couple of feet onto it. The 817 is rugged, I would be OK with taking a KX2 onto a nice smooth grassy summit but for anything more rough I would prefer the 817/818. In the end only the questioner will know what sort of excursion that he will take his final choice on, but ruggedness should be included in the equation.
Both rigs have good things going for them, the out board Speech Compressor improves the FT 817 I have once you get the settings right on SSB. kX2 has internal tuner and a lot more “trimmings” needed or not jammed in a small tin box. I do use my FT 817 on SOTA but tend to use the Elecraft more. I only use resonate link dipoles on SOTA given up on all the other Wonder antennas that I have tried over the years LDP’s just give the best signal out for what they are. My bench marks are ZL and JA stations that I chase or work for S2S and the ones who use Dipoles are worked more readily than other antennas they choose to use. So my thoughts re which rig is better are more about what antenna is hooked up to it in the end.
vk5cz …
… for KX2
There is a solution for FT-817/818. I’m using an internal LiPo from Wincamp with 3 Ah (designed for FT-817/818). Enough for 3 h of activation.
We’ve been here before of course and you may want to review this topic as well …
I’ve had a FT817 for 19 years and a KX2 for 3 years. I use the 817 now only for 2m SSB/CW. My KX2 and 2m/70cm FM/C4FM FT1D weigh about the same as the 817 [and I like the redundancy of having two radios]. I endorse the many excellent points already made by 817/KX2 owners above.
If I had to single out only one feature of the KX2, it’s the excellent [optional] internal ATU which loads up my 40/30/20 EFHW well on 60m, 17m, etc. Yes, I could take my two linked dipoles and spend ages setting them up [and maybe get marginally better Dx], but at my age I value quick deployment in winter [so my fingers aren’t already cold before I need to paddle properly].
Highly relevant discussion as I’m in the process of getting a KX2 in an attempt to get the weight down a bit - My 817 / MXP50M amp / Speech compressor combination seems to work well, but when I was out last summer (Mickle Fell) I was feeling the weight. ( I also carry a FT270 for 2m as a plan B radio… ) I intend using the 817 combination on shorter walks and if I want 2m SSB. I’m wondering how much I’ll notice going from about 30w to 10w…
(PS Following Andy’s one in one out rule the FT450 in the shack is off to a new home)
(PPS Side panels are also on the way, at the moment according to USPS they seem to be taking a tour of the West Coast…)
Paul
TBH my second K2 is now sold. Down to a single fully loaded 10W K2 with an XV144 and an Anglian III in construction as well. I think the 706MkII is not long for this shack too. It never gets used. I’m also considering disposing of both Codans (8525B and X2 2020) as well for the same reason.
I owned an 817nd with the SSB filter, internal DSP, and mic-based compression. I bought it in 2008ish when I got my General ticket and only sold it this past Fall when I bought a used KX2 with ATU at a price that was impossible to say no to.
I do miss the option of doing 6m and 2m FM or SSB, not that I used them much in my 817nd…
817 Pros:
Does everything. DC-Daylight in any mode you could want.
Tough
Well supported in the aftermarket
Not terribly expensive
817 Cons:
Lacks built in filters and other audio controls found in the KX2.
Heavy
Somewhat power hungry
Display and controls a bit tedious to use if it’s in your lap (ie sitting on a rock)
No internal ATU or even an option for one.
Poor internal battery life (though decent if you use the AA tray and high capacity NiMH batteries)
KX2 Pros:
Light and compact
Internal ATU Option
Lots of audio controls and filters with which to tweak your signal
Controls and display great for operating from your lap or handheld
Decent internal battery life
KX2 Cons:
Price
Feels lightly delicate (but it’s not).
Doesn’t do 6m or 2m. If you use 2m for SOTA, you’ll need a 2nd radio.
ATU can sometimes be a bit flaky
Exactly what happened to G8ADD above, happened to me and my KX2. I have attached the photo. Owning the KX2 has been described as dancing with the prom queen. After dancing with her it is hard to dance with anyone else but is she really the one you want to marry and have children with? That is the question. By the way, just the repair of my KX2 was more than the cost of a 817.
Ouch! This why I feel the side panels and cover should really be standard fit on this radio (which is designed specifically for portable use in the great and wild outdoors). They offer some protection (though I still wouldn’t class it as robust as the 817).
I confess Paul that I’d never really considered my KX in that way! I wonder if my wife would let me bring it to bed with me?
First up if you are concerned with value for money why not pick up a used KX2? I see them on eBay and the Elecraft reflector more often than not for $800 plus. That also makes your comparison more equitable as your valuing your current 817 at $400 and a used KX2 at $800 plus for a difference of around $400.
BTW , the price difference between new base KX2 and 818 is about $180 in the US at present.
My KX2, which has endplates and a cover, has been on hundreds of activations, been thumped on when falling backwards on a trail, operated in really hot weather, really cold weather and been a champ. But to be fair, I sit between it and the direct sun to manage heating as I do for my iPhone, pack it in padding for when I take a tumble. Generally try and be mindful.
As someone else shared its your choice based on your requirements and how deep your pockets are.
Lets be honest. How many radios do you need?
Just one … … … more.
This is a great time for new portable radios with the IC-705, Xeigu X5105, MCHF and others also available.
The 817 has 3 issues for me.
No speech processor. I think this is the main actual performance issue for SSB with this radio.
Battery life on (old) factory batteries, easily fixed, and thereafter only really an issue for long (>1week) trips.
Weight: An issue for long trips more than day outings I think. (Same for size).
Get new NiMH e.g black eneloops which are 2700mAh. Twice what the factory ones were new, before they lost capacity, and >8hrs RX. (240g/set). Replacement NiMH means no change to the charging.
or, use L91 disposable lithium. (120g/set), and 3000mAh. You have the good fortune to live in the US, where you can get them for ~$10 a set.
Either of these is enough power for a couple of activations and a multi-day hiking trip.
If you are considering buying a new KX2, you can ask for a committed repair price / replacement part price for the display LCD, and simply refuse to buy if it’s silly.
I have done this on other equipment. They and I knew that the marginal cost of the custom LCD is <$50, and further there is only an X% chance of ever needing a replacement. The manufacturer gave me a firm price of $150 for a display replacement that I knew they were gouging 70% of the products list price for if you came along later needing one.
They weren’t happy, but in this case it can be do it, or lose the sale to Xeigu that has an industry standard display you can replace cheaply.
Another option is ask for a price including a spare LCD.
I have a KX3 and have used a KX2 on just one activation in Spain (thanks to Jorge EA2LU). I also own and have used many times, an FT817.
Comparing these rigs using technical characteristics, apart from transmit power (10/5 watts) shows them to be apparently similar on paper. However in the field where it counts:
Adjusting mike gain on ssb:
kx series has the mike gain on the front panel.
WIth the 817 it is a 2nd level menu adjustment
Setting power levels
front panel control on KX series.
Preset levels (5, 2.5, 1 and 0.5w) on 817 series
Adjusting speed on cw
Front panel control on KX series.
A 2nd level menu control on FT817, though there is a shortcut if the first level menu is positioned so that control C is KYR, in that case a long press of button C brings up the speed control.
Speech Compressor
Built in to the kx series.
Ft817 requires external compressor.
VHF/UHF bands
Not avail in kx2, 6m built into kx3, 2m option (not cheap!) avail for kx3.
Built into the ft817 (50/144/432)
Two antenna sockets - ideal for using the radio as a transverter driver and on the IF band for liaison
Not an option with kx2
Built into the ft817
Optional filtering for SSB and CW bandwidths
Continuously variable in the KX series.
Optional narrow filter for the 817 for either SSB or CW, but not both (unless you get a rare PCB and mod done to the radio (apparently no longer available) so that ssb uses the better spec filter and cw has a choice of 500 or 300 hz. Both filters no longer manufactured by original supplier (Collins) so this option is virtually nonexistent now as far as I know.
Headphones/speaker, external key socket, digital mode options, control of external amplifier or transverters
Basically available in both radios but implemented in different ways.
Form factor, Styling, what is it intended for?
KX series appear to be designed specifically for portable use, low current consumption on rx, big panel has an informative LCD screen and numerous knobs that someone like me with big fingers can readily access and use.
FT817 took over the role of the FT*90R series as a portable “handbag” style radio able to be used as a vhf portable on a shoulder strap, with an antenna sticking out of the front panel socket, so the front panel is small and has very limited space for LCD and controls, but with the added benefit of HF bands for QRP use. Did Yaesu expect it to last so long and be so popular? Possibly not. The 818 is possibly a stopgap measure before the release of a newer type of radio.
As you can see, both series of radios have their strengths. Many operators enjoy the additional features of the KX series and like having those features to use on a summit or in a park. The 817 though is hard to beat in terms of being an affordable multi-use radio. I do require an IF radio for microwave work and I do like 6m/2m/70cm ssb operations. Hence I’m not likely to dispose of mine any time soon, though I’ll keep using the kx3 for most of my HF activations.
If I had to choose only one, I would probably pick the one with the most bands as that gives me the most options.
A pity you don’t have 2 KX2 anymore. You could erect two antenna at right angles and couple one to one rig and the other to the other rig. Diversity operation. Ear buds from both rigs one rig per ear.
If in doubt buy an IC705. The extra weight and possible need for a small ATU are vanishingly small disadvantages against the pleasure of having an all band home station albeit at 10 W.
Inbuilt everything except ATU and microphone.
Auto sets time in the field to GPS UTC. Records QSOs. Talks to Death Stars. It needs 3 manuals.
I have a headset connected via Bluetooth. Ah the freedom. QSO from 15 m away (must stay in the AZ). I do have to connect the key by cable as my whistled CW causes hysterical laughter at the other end of the QSO.
I’ve dropped mine twice on hard surfaces and it did not break.
I had 2x K2, the older radio not KX2. The one sold the other day was CW only and was acquired in a “horse trading” deal for a stupidly low price. I want to use a K2 to drive a high performance 2m transverter for contesting etc. and even with help from friends in the US, buying an SSB board, cobbling together a transverter interface as Elecraft don’t sell it any more, and some other options was going to cost a fortune especially shipping and duties/taxes.
So I kept my eyes peeled for a set with the options I needed. I found one, fully specced, local and bought that and sold the CW only one. I was prepared to buy/sell enough K2s and to strip out options to build up exactly the IF radio I wanted. End result after all the dealings and 6months of time is a fully specified K2 (SSB, 160m, 60m, xvrt, Aux IO, AF filter, DSP filter, ATU, Heil mic, carry case, cables and a load of antenna wire) for about $235 AUD. Which is a bit of a steal It’s a shame it’s so big and heavy when populated with the options or I’d take it SOTAing now and then as it’s a better HF radio than an 817. But it is what it is.
Why K2 for 2m IF radio. We now use a K3 +Kuhne 2m transverter for contesting and it’s like night and day comparing that setup for contesting over something like an FT736 or IC910. My contest group have several hot-rodded FT736s but they’re hard work listening to them for hours. Using the K3+Kuhne was so relaxing and effortless. I can’t justify a Kuhne 2m transverter (about $2900 AUD) so I have a G4DDK Anglian III being built and was given a damaged XV144 from Elecraft that has been, to use a Led Zeppelin expression, been driven “In through the out door”, i.e. TX into RX port and probably needs a new mixer. Should I ever get any time to play radio.
A.J. Buy an 817 “pre-owned and loved” as it will be the cheapest way forward. Use it and enjoy it. Then 9-12months from now buy a used KX2 and use and enjoy that. Use them both, alternate them. But have fun. You can always sell one of them later and the 817 isn’t going to loose much in value. You know you want both so you need to engineer the situation so you can have both. You know you want to.
I may have missed it but wanted to point out that the biggest snag with the KX2 is having to remove the battery to charge it up. I haven’t modified mine for charging whilst installed and I’ve not heard of anyone else who has. Elecraft don’t allow this in the design presumably due to lithium battery fire risk. Some operators of the radio rely on plugging in a small external pack consisting of 3 X 18650 cells. My KX2 has gone U/S once - the bandpass filter board for 15m/17m bands had to be replaced - it cost me £50 and was easy to change myself. I suspect it may have been damaged whilst I was removing my home brew battery pack to charge it.
I’ve had 2 FT-817s over the years (now sold on - one in one out principal I don’t hoard transceivers) and now have a KX2 I bought new in 2016 just before the Brexit vote fall in the UK£. Knowing what I know about both radios the ruggedness of the FT-817/818 is a real winner for SOTA. I am 75% CW and 25% Phone and only use resonant dipoles for efficiency. My KX2 does not have an ATU, so it was cheaper in equivalent terms to your $1000. I also built the internal and external battery packs myself as the Elecraft accessories are an extortionate price. I bought the KXPD paddle key - it was rubbish and a lot of trouble. I sold it on and put the money towards one of the last Palm keys that mount on the front of the KX2 before Palm Radio finished production. This key is far superior to the Elecraft key. (I have an external LDG-Z100+ on the shelf which I never use).
If I were starting up doing SOTA from scratch I would buy the 817/818 and see how I went on.
You only use SSB it seems so you won’t make any more SOTA QSOs by spending what you say is $1000 more on the KX2 in my opinion, and you will have to handle it more carefully than you would the FT-817/8. Spend the $1000 on something else and stick with the FT-817/8 would be my advice.
People keep saying removing the battery is a problem, but other than being slightly less convenient, I don’t see how that is. I’ve had plenty of devices over the years that required me to remove batteries for charging.
While a $1000 premium ($1600 total?) is hard to swallow, I have had more success with my KX2 than my previous 817nd in the same locations with the same (or worse!) antennas. Just yesterday I worked a number of POTA stations in Texas (I’m in Virginia, prob equiv to you working stations in Spain from the UK) using my KX2 with an MFJ-1820t whip while walking around a local park. I do that regularly. I was never able to make that work with the 817nd. Actually, I wouldn’t even try the “pedestrian mobile” method in the first place, I always mounted that antenna on a tripod or directly on the radio when I used it with the 817.
I don’t know if I can point to a single feature of the KX2 that is making my SSB QSOs more effortless than those with the 817, I just know that my success rate has gone up considerably.
That’s not to say the current 818 is a bad radio or deficient, just that the KX2 fits my operating parameters better. I wouldn’t spend a $1000 premium, but I’d gladly spend the extra $250 my used KX2 cost over a new 818.
This why I feel the side panels and cover should really be standard fit on this radio (which is designed specifically for portable use in the great and wild outdoors). They offer some protection (though I still wouldn’t class it as robust as the 817).