Stupid question of the day.

[VK3ARR]

@M1EYP

I will activate The Cloud

Your Cloud activations are absolutely an outlier though! And you are ascending twice so yes, it’s two activations.

Maybe you specifically just need a button to split an activation across UTC dates.

@M0JLA

Why? They should have different dates

Because the CSV, ADIF and FLE format has to handle activations that cross the UTC boundary sanely and have no way of indicating ascent or descent, and for all the reasons above, it’s better to handle as a single activation.

There are exactly three scenarios we have to handle:

• A single activation that spans the UTC boundary. 99.995% of cases. Handled automatically.
• A single activation that spans NYE/NYD UTC boundary. A once a year issue, but handled automatically if you submit via SOTAData3
• Multiple activations of the same summit on different days without an intervening different summit. Only really occurs when Tom uploads his logs in a batch every month or so. He has a workaround that he can use.

[M0JLA]

Thank you for the explanation - and all the work in keeping the system going.
73,
Rod

[M0MZB]

@M1EYP

Ultimately, you can enter as one single activation (to ensure the points), or as two (to increase the activation count).

To those that say “but it’s only one activation”, let’s consider the following cases:

1. I activate The Cloud G/SP-015 and make 10 QSOs. I descend to my car 80m below and have an afternoon nap. Then reascend, set up again and make another 10 QSOs all within one UTC day.
2. As above, but I have my nap in the heather 15m below the summit.
3. As 2., but I leave my antenna and station set up.
4. 5. & 6. As 1. 2. & 3. but with the nap taken over UTC midnight.

These are a mere selection of the whole range of cases. The question is - what actions are necessary to perform in order to claim that a consecutive activation is a distinct one? For every possible answer, there is a scenario that argues against it.

Ultimately, it’s down to the individual to decide.

I believe that type of argument is referred to as “Loki’s wager”. Loki found it led to an unforeseen punishment (although it was probably better than the alternative of losing his head)

I thing the decision to leave it to the activator to decide is wise. This is especially because things look very different in VK land.

[GM4LLD]

@M0MZB

look very different in VK land.

It will do, it’s all upside down.

And don’t forget the drop bears!

[M1EYP]

@VK3ARR

And you are ascending twice so yes, it’s two activations.

But then allow me to invoke the scenarios. What constitutes “ascending twice”? Let us assume that all the following refer to activations on distinct consecutive UTC days.

1. Separated by me descending, driving home, returning the next day and reascending - like I have actually done yesterday and today.

2. Separated by me descending to my car, sleeping there, reascending the next morning.

3. Separated by me descending to 30m below the summit (ie outside the AZ) and wild camping there.

4. Separated by camping in the AZ but dismantling the station, setting it back up again the next morning.

5. Separated by camping in the AZ and leaving the station set up.

6. Separated by switching off the 817 at 2359 and turning it back on at 0001.

7. None of the above - separated by change of UTC date only.

Just to save anyone wasting their time trying to determine which of the above are one activation, and which are two, rest assured I can find more scenarios that squeeze between any of these!

Anyway, the Database works. I assume it’s far more common that “normal” activations cross 0000z in JA / VK / ZL / W6 / KL7 etc than fools like me activate in the middle of the night in Europe or visit the same summit repeatedly! So the default in the Database is appropriate. Main thing is, I can separate my daily activations of The Cloud and my campovers on Shining Tor, and people activating across 0000z can enter as a single activation via the upload or manual entry methods.

[G8ADD]

My head hurts!