I wasn’t trying to upset anyone, especially you, hi, you are always there supporting the activators. How it came about was that I had just finished on fm and worked Lee and was going to snatch a quick bite then do ssb, so I asked Lee to spot me for 5 minutes time on .300 which he did. I thought that someone would hear me on .300 then spot the qsy frequency. I hadn’t alerted any of the three summits because I am staying at Mick’s 2E0HJD and decided to do them as and when. The activator might be King, but he is nothing without the regular chasers such as yourself & others, it works both ways.
I will probably head for home tomorrow (Friday) back to civilisation and “my office”, hi.
“One solution (puts tin hat on) would be the removal of the spots system altogether.”
As an activator, I agree with 100% Ian. And I have blanked on a hill, and guess what, the worst is you have to go back another day and do it again! :))
In reply to G7ADF:
It wouldn’t bother me if the Spots system was removed, but I suspect that activity from activators on lesser used bands would drop significantly.
Thanks to the Spots system John G4YSS made 2 QSOs on Topband yesterday which he wouldn’t otherwise have done - it was no big achievement for 2 x GMs to make a QSO with him (no-one in the Northern hemisphere tunes idly around 160m in the middle of the day in summer months!), but it made John’s efforts to activate NS-004 on the band 100% more worthwhile to him.
Following those QSOs I worked John on 60m (thanks again to a spot); from that QSO he gained some local knowledge as to the popular 2m FM frequency up here and he QSYd to 145.575 - he then worked a large number of local stations that he wouldn’t otherwise have done (plus at least one on 70cm), with the net result that his enjoyment was increased and SOTA was publicised more widely (at least one of the locals hadn’t heard of SOTA before - a future enthusiast?).
Likewise its no big achievement to work a DL portable on, say, 10, 12, 15 or 17m but it does add a significant dimension to the keen activator’s interest in putting together a good QRP station on those bands (see Klaus’s (DF2GN/p) recent multiband activities).
As for the ‘good old days’ pre-cluster, rest assured that keen DXCC hunters made good use of 2m for DX alerts - before then in pre-blackbox days DXers resorted to the ‘twisted pair’ for alerting purposes, so no great skill in those methods either.
BTW: Even as I write this some of the locals are still talking about their VHF QSO with NS-004 - such is the paucity of VHF activity up here!
73 de Cris
GM4FAM
As an activator, I agree with 100% Ian. And I have blanked on a hill,
and guess what, the worst is you have to go back another day and do it
again! :))
It took me three attempts to qualify ES-001 and then, without spots, it was only done with, if memory serves me, mainly overseas stations. Have a look at how far that summit is from the nearest road and the hazardous weather conditions of the high Cairngorm plateau and you will see why the spots system is a godsend to activators.
It surely cannot be questioned that the SOTAwatch Spots facility has been hugely successful and popular. As Cris says, it encourages radio operation from additional bands and modes, and a live breakdown of what is on where is of great interest to many. It is also very useful for activators, who can send update messages re ETA and QRG while out /M or /P, as well as enabling them to get the contacts when they are otherwise thin on the ground. It’s good for safety.
Let’s be realistic. If the SOTAwatch Spots was discontinued, then the reflector and maybe even the old Yahoogroup mailing list would get inundated with spotting messages. This was how it used to be before the Spots page.
If SOTAwatch Spots diminishes your own sense of achievement in gaining any of the chaser awards, then it is your right not to use it in conjunction with your chasing. Use it if you like it, don’t if you don’t, simple as that. There’s no need to call for an end to something that a great many people value, and let’s be fair to Jon GM4ZFZ, is a superb resource.
In my recent adventures activating on 4 metres FM I have found it so different to the ‘main’ VHF/UHF bands.
People monitor the calling frequency.
People actually call CQ, meaning they are wanting a contact with another station.
If they hear someone else calling CQ they answer - even if it’s not one of their mates.
Most of the QSOs I have are with non-SOTA stations who are just happy to answer my CQ and have a chat.
I think a lot of this is due to the fact that as it’s not included in the ubiquitious multi-band rigs you have to have a stand alone rig for 4 metres, so can leave it on even when you’re doing other things. Contrast this to 70cms. I almost always call CQ on 433.500 when I’m on a hill, but have had a handful of replies in over 100 activations. Although most people have a multi-band rig with 70cms, that doesn’t mean they can monitor the calling frequency all the time, because they are using the rig other bands. With all the ex-police surplus around, you can buy a PMR and put it on 70cms for £15, then leave it on 433.500 all day without tying up your main rig. Same applies to 2m. Or just buy a cheap scanner and leave it scanning 50.510/70.45/145.500/433.500/1297.500.
Some folk I’ve suggested this to have a good point. Where they live 145.500 is very busy and it can be very distracting to have on all the time. How about a SOTA CTCSS tone? If you’re activating, switch the tone on (Tx only). Any chasers that want to monitor the FM calling frequency but only hear SOTA stations instead of all the locals calling each other (nobody calls CQ any more) can enable the CTCSS on receive. Also, if you set the receiver up to scan the band, it would only stop on SOTA stations.
Then maybe we’d get away from the situation where you get a pile-up if you’re spotted but if you don’t you’re lucky to qualify, because chasers would actually hear your CQ calls instead of sitting in front of the telly waiting for webmon to go ping!
Disclaimer - some of the comments in this post are made in good humour and nothing is meant to offend anyone. It’s only my opinion.
Thats the difficulty. The spot system isnt broken as far as the activator is concerned. But as far as the chaser award is concerned (in my opinion) it is smashed into tiny pieces.
I have just done a quick scan of the alerts from Monday to Now and the number of chaser points available on different summits in 4 days was 322. I havent taken into account the fact that if there were 2 vhf fm activations, one in DL and one in GM that they would not be able to be worked by the same chaser, but 322 in 4 days that dont include a weekend. Roughly expanding that for the weekend then I would estimate that the number of points available in 7 days would be about 700. In theory you could gain shack sloth in around 10 days.
This is a total devaluation of the award and makes it meaningless.
Although I’ve said the spots system isnt broken for the activator, and this is a question, does the fact that you know that 99% of the time you can use the spots system to get the 4 contacts remove some of the excitement and buzz of attempting the activation in the first place?
I suppose the basic question is, how much of the challenge do we want to take out of SOTA. At the moment, the physical challenge of ascent is the only one left.
As an aside (and cross over into another topic), a reduction to P100 would further reduce this challenge, although I know the arguements about drive up summit , and long distance travel. As a non-prolific activator I would always abstain from any vote if there was one.
Sorry for the many posts this morning, but here is a suggestion that may work.
How about the removal of the exact frequency (which is where I think this topic got started). So the spot would still say the callsign, summit, band, and mode.
This is a total devaluation of the award and makes it meaningless.
I totally disagree Ian. Don’t let the achievements of the very top few chasers cloud your evaluation of the whole chaser side to the programme.
Who, in all honesty, would have picked up those 322 chaser points in four days? Someone with an excellent station set-up, well-maintained and hgh performing antennas for every band, excellent transceivers, rotators, good operating skills, ability to use CW as well as FM and SSB, and no doubt someone without a young family or a full-time job.
These people exist, and they maintain their high rate of scoring. They themselves are clearly still enjoying the programme, and the calls to make it “more challenging” are not coming from them, in the main. I try to work every SOTA station I hear, and have the opportunities to work from home, mobile or portable. I have most bands available to me, and I do CW. Even so, I am averaging about 500 points a year. It’s not excessive. You can see through postings on this reflector how genuinely thrilled some people are when they achieve Shack Sloth. Let’s not devalue their achievement.
Post 1000 points most people lose interest in the points anyway, and it’s the uniques they are chasing, whether as a chaser or an activator. To achieve 1000 uniques as a chaser is quite something, and it has never yet been done by activator.
So the challenge remains. There’s more to SOTA than points!
It would make no difference Ian. The information would/could still be passed around on air, on emails etc. Individuals wanting to extend their level of challenge in this manner may do so by not looking at the spots, and just tuning “blindly” around the likely frequencies. I do so myself fairly regularly, and it works!
It’s a personal choice. But in making that choice, we do not need to dictate what everyone else’s choice needs to be
This is a total devaluation of the award and makes it meaningless.
Hi Ian
I understand your analysis but please be aware that there are some folks (myself included) who lead busy working lives with a young family too and it’s just not possible to be be able to take advantage of all the points available.
I’ve been chasing for 18 months but I’m still just short of Shack Sloth. For me, it’s a very worthwhile target and challenging enough as it is. Especially when chasing many of the “Northern” VHF/UHF activations are not easy/impossible from the flatlands.
I accept that there are others who can take advantage of all the points and spots etc… so then Super Sloth becomes more a of a challenge. (or uniques etc etc) In my view, SOTA is quite rightly about personal goals rather than absolute comparisons or competition.
On the subject of spots… I think the main benefit is particularly clear for those activations on “unusual” band/mode slots.
e.g. I had never had a CW QSO on 5 MHz from home despite a fair bit of calling, but when I spotted my CW activations on 5.291 on G/CE-005, they qualified with a handful of QSO’s… very satisfying.
So the conclusion I would make is that the spotting service is very useful, but if you want an extra challenge, turn your PC off and don’t use it.
In reply to M1EYP:
As a keen chaser I note that my total summits worked is still less than 50% of those activated so far and that number equates to 15% of the total number of summits currently available - so plenty to work yet (approx 13,000!).
As said before, it really wouldn’t bother me one jot if the spotting system was removed but there are an overwhelming number of reasons to keep it as outlined in numerous postings.
Isn’t this fast becoming a sterile debate?
73 de Cris
GM4FAM
Its a wonderful thing, this SOTA. Its getting more and more activators, more and more chasers, more and more associations around more and more of the globe.
