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Several Question marks

Hi all,
I hesitated whether to write the following, and therefore apologize to the others, but many times I have heard someone in the middle of pileup sending several times, very strongly and repeatedly, several question marks. It appears that this person demands an immediate response of activator about, when haven´t his callsign. Very please that this chaser, if he haven´t available cluster, to listen, surely it is only a matter of time to capture the callsign of activator. Please note that such stressing call and QRM is the same as sending without own license. Especially if I’m on a hill, (sometimes only giving away some points to the friends chasers), it can quite spoil the pleasure from a nice trip associated with activation. It is up to each (of course, in accordance with the radio-traffic rules), how often can give callsign and ref, it is perhaps a little delayed to give this information to decrease the first biggest pileup…hi
At the same time thank to the most, which are patient. Therefore again for this unpatient chaser: please listen. It is not a contest and we do it for fun.
Thanks a lot
73 Petr OK3EQ

In reply to OK3EQ:
Unfortunately Petr it occurs on a daily basis!
Today there were 2 callers at one point repeatedly sending ?? CALL? CALL?? CALL?
When I say repeatedly, I mean constantly over both the activator and chasers.
This is not made any easier by the fact that some stations send their call over and over again and never seem to listen!

I think it’s about time the DX Code of Conduct was taken on board by a few more of the community. Life would become much simpler…

DX Code Of Conduct

I will listen, and listen, and then listen again before calling.
I will only call if I can copy the DX station properly.
I will not trust the DX cluster and will be sure of the DX station's call sign before calling.
I will not interfere with the DX station nor anyone calling and will never tune up on the DX frequency or in the QSX slot.
I will wait for the DX station to end a contact before I call.
I will always send my full call sign.
I will call and then listen for a reasonable interval. I will not call continuously.
I will not transmit when the DX operator calls another call sign, not mine.
I will not transmit when the DX operator queries a call sign not like mine.
I will not transmit when the DX station requests geographic areas other than mine.
When the DX operator calls me, I will not repeat my call sign unless I think he has copied it incorrectly.
I will be thankful if and when I do make a contact.
I will respect my fellow hams and conduct myself so as to earn their respect.

The DX code of conduct is a good guideline.

The described QRM behavior is an obvious breach of the SOTA general rules both as a breach of local licensing regulations, and the SOTA code of conduct. If it becomes a noticable problem, perhaps it should be reported to the managers.

I would also say that an activator only giving out QSOs to his friends, and not identifying regularly, might be operating contrary to the spirit of the programme. By that I don’t mean sensible management of the pileup by calling by area, by numbers, or calling for DX and non-DX stations in turn, but if one has a list of calls to run and doesn’t run anyone else.

Note that SOTA rules also requires each QSO to include callsigns and signal report. Summit reference is encouraged, but is not needed in every QSO - it should be repeated intermittently in CQs and QSOs. There might also be a license regulation issue as some places the law might require both stations to give callsigns on every QSO. What this means is that if you did not state your callsign in each QSO, it was not a valid SOTA activation?

In reply to LA9XSA:

They are doing this to watch reactions here. Ignore them.

Yes, sota operation is very similar to dx operation. DX rules are excellent and could be our pattern. This makes it possible to establish a QSO with many stations in a short time. Difficult would it be possible when giving callsigns in each QSO. I think the most of activators giving the call for theyr own identyfying in right intervals.
To explain: I consider all the Chaser for my friends, I always try to get points every caller. Giving points means that the attempt to do so, even though me himself for re-activation have no points.
These behaviors spoil our fun, so that in a few cases I’ve wanted to turn-off my trx and walk away. I always knew but again, that it does not among friends. So I’ll try again ignore that - and believe that it will be better.
73 Petr OK3EQ

In reply to LA9XSA:

Note that SOTA rules also requires each QSO to include callsigns and
signal report.

There is an interesting anomaly in the SOTA rules that really must be fixed in the next revision.

The database does not require that signal reports be entered, and there is no mention of signal reports in the rules for activators, so you might conclude that the activator need not give a signal report. However, in the rules for chasers, rule 3.8.1.2 requires two-way signal reports. We thus have the odd situation where the activator need not give a report but the chaser must receive one! Ridiculous!

73

Brian G8ADD

In reply to G8ADD:

We thus have the odd situation where the activator
need not give a report but the chaser must receive one! Ridiculous!

A bizarre comment from a member of the Management Team. Why not fix it?

73

Richard
G3CWI

In reply to G3CWI:

We take the simple premise that when changing the rules there has to be a good reason and that it has to be easily explained and translated to people who don’t speak English. In this case it’s reasonably trivial but some other changes do become involved.

However, there is no real need to change, it doesn’t matter the exchange minimum requirement is different for chaser and activators for a very simple reason. If the chaser needs to exchange reports then the activator has to give a report.

Andy
MM0FMF

In reply to G3CWI:

A bizarre anomaly which has not been noticed before, and it will be fixed, but I have only just spotted it and can’t help finding it amusing!

73

Brian G8ADD

In reply to G8ADD:

I’ve pointed it out on here many, many times.

Andy
MM0FMF

Suppose I’m on 2m FM on The Cloud, and chatting to a mate in Macclesfield with 2-way fully quietening signals. He says “You’re a great signal Tom”. I say “So are you”. Is that not a 2-way exchange of signal information? Does that contact need to go through the RS formalities in order to turn it into a contact? Common sense and being honest with oneself tells us what is a good contact and what isn’t.

Bizarre Richard? No more bizarre than the original co-writer of that rule openly describing it as bizarre…

Tom M1EYP

I do not want to create new thread, but if you’re in the future, after all, a change in the rules, I would be very grateful for the introduction of at least a minimum point gain for re-activation for activators, repeatedly activating their favorite hills. Thus, this particular injustice against chasers could be at least partially removed and would to give for activators so needed motivation to further expeditions.
Petr OK3EQ

In reply to OK3EQ:

I’m not sure that I understand you, Petr. There is no point gain for re-activating summits in any year, other than a summer activated summit could be activated again to earn just the winter bonus. This rule was intended to encourage the activation of more summits, but does not prevent activators from reactivating summits with no points gain but in the hope of gaining summit-to-summit contacts. Chasers can chase any summit once per day simply because activators need chasers!

73

Brian G8ADD

In reply to G8ADD:
Hi Brian, of course, activators need chasers, and the current rules are clear. But there are many limits for activators - distance to the summit, availability, health, time, cost of traffic, etc., which not allows someone to activate more distant summits. The nearby summits are then restricted with this rule once (or twice with winter bonus, but only for higher of them) per year. Understand: I myself have operated from more summits with the zero points gain. But at least a small (perhaps as part of the original amount of points for the summit) point gain would fit! Otherwise, of course I will continue to climb for the zeroes, especially in case of the my most favourite hills. BTW: Look in the tables - you can see there are not many activators going on the same hill for the second time in the same year … I think the little change of this “zero point rule” could increase the number of activations. In effect, this would provide profits for all - both activators and chasers, too.
73 Petr OK3EQ

In reply to OK3EQ:

Petr, reactivating a summit is ok for you, only you don’t get points the same year, choises need to be made, the purpose of SOTA is to activate as many summits as possible, not reactivating them again and again and again in the same year. I would be very glad if i would live next to a 10 point summit, i would climb it every day and get lots of points, but it would not be fair compared to the other activators who live far from the summits…

Please do not compare chasers and activators, it is not the same…Both are a class on its own. Some are goats, some sit in their chair…:slight_smile:

Unfortunately Petr i’m living at least 200km from the closest summit, if i can’t afford the cost of traffic etc i don’t go for sota.

Sota is for sports, it is a hobby, you don’t need to be the best…

Some details for OK1EQ/p…
-first sota summit 09/10/10
-total activations…330
-OK/US-047 15 times activated, some other summits 7, 8 times.
-104 summits without points
I’m impressed, congratulations Petr

Dobri den, 73 ON6UU

In reply to OK3EQ:
I think the point being made is that at the moment the points system is biased towards the Activator, in so far as Chasers have an incentive to be there and Chase summits more than once whereas Activators have no incentive to activate a Summit more than once (or twice) per year.

Personally I don’t see much of a problem, there is enough of an incentive to activate summits knowing there are Chasers out there wanting to work me. And as a Chaser I am happy to work as many people on as many bands as activators want from a summit. To me the points system is just an added extra.
However, that said it could be useful to have some sort of incentive for Activators to activate some of the more difficult to chase summits. So for those Activators whose main driver is gaining points perhaps a token 0.5 points for multiple activations (or perhaps an extra point for every additional 2 activations would be easier to manage).

73,
Colin
M0XSD.

In reply to M0XSD:

No.

Andy
MM0FMF

In reply to OK3EQ:

BTW: Look in the tables - you can see there are not many
activators going on the same hill for the second time in the same year
… I think the little change of this “zero point rule” could increase
the number of activations. In effect, this would provide profits for
all - both activators and chasers, too.
73 Petr OK3EQ

Hi Petr, I’ve just checked and I’ve activated G/NP-028, Rombalds Moor, 12 times this year, all for 1 point! I just enjoy the operating to be honest and it’s only 20mins drive from my home QTH. Whilst I like the activation points, I think the rules are fine as they are, in any case SOTA is so well established now that I think it’s a little late to be fundamentally changing the rules.

Looking at some of the chaser scores, I don’t think that there is a lack of activators to work, given the right skill set.

73
Colin
M0CGH

In reply to M0CGH:

Hi Petr, I’ve just checked and I’ve activated G/NP-028, Rombalds Moor,
12 times this year, all for 1 point!

I’m a member of that club too, Colin!

G/SP-004 Shining Tor, 25 times this year, all for 5 points :frowning:

73 Mike
2E0YYY

If you’ll do it for zero points, you must love it! Especially living round here where we’re within 2 hours drive of scores of SOTA summits. How they’d long for that down south!

SOTA is designed to encourage people to broaden their horizons and explore the hills. And I am grateful for that, having now activated every G summit. I have seen many new corners of England that I wouldn’t have done with “softy giveaway” points systems for activators, so that’s all good.

Anyway…

G/SP-004 Shining Tor, 25 times this year, all for 5 points :frowning:

Luxury!

I’ll raise you G/SP-015 The Cloud, 30 times this year, all for 1 point :wink: That’s a factor of 6 times less fruitful. You don’t know you’re born lad.

Tom M1EYP