Review of FT-8 on your mobile phone by VK3YE- link

It depends :wink: not all Androids have the drivers needed. Also you will need the cable to be OTG capable. A normal USB serial adapter will only be a device (to connect to a laptop) but you may already know this.

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Hi Peter

I haven’t tried FT8CN but I’m pretty sure the Bluetooth option will be serial over Bluetooth. You can get a dongle for the FT-81? accessory port : example

(I made one of my own as I didn’t want the dangly cable)

Cheers
Rick

Size/weight/portability/cost is an important consideration. But so is ergonomics/usability/efficiency.

I have been experimenting with options for datamode activating for over a decade now. I have tried:

  • PSK31 / PSK63 using DroidPSK Android app on smartphone, and Wolphilink interface and cables.
  • JT65 using JT65android app on smartphone, with Wolphilink interface and cables.
  • FT8 using WSJT-X / WSJT-Z on Windows 10 tablet, with ZLP MiniProSC interface and cables.
  • FT8 / FT4 using WSJT-Z on Lenovo notebook (small laptop), with ZLP interface and cables.

Obviously, the lightest and cheapest method was just using a phone that I would be carrying anyway. A tablet was easier to use, but still a bit fiddly - sometimes the touchscreen keyboard didn’t automatically pop up, and then when the touchscreen failed, I had to add a wired mouse and a Bluetooth keyboard to the set-up! The Lenovo notebook has the greatest size, and probably weight impact - though it’s not-at-all heavy. Having used it for many activations now, there’s no way I could or would ever go back to Datamode portable operating via a smartphone or tablet. The small amount extra paid for the device, and the small amount of extra weight to carry, is more than compensated for by the ease of operating.

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I have an OTG cable and keyboards/mice work OK but I don’t think it has the drivers for anything more interesting.

That’s what I was thinking of. If they work with Android then that would be perfect.
I have some ESP32s I could test it out with…but it’s too sunny outside at the moment to sit inside tinkering.

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Another solution : (Apple user only) simple and lighter.
IC-705 with WLAN on and connection type : Access Point Mode ( wireless, no cable, no external interface) and integrated GPS time for the FT8 clock.
and software SDR-control (by DL8MRE, Marcus Roskosch) : ios Version for iPhone (without spectrogram) or iPad (with spectrogram). (There is also a Mac version …. ).
wifi connection with the IC-705 and it works very well with no bug ….

73, Bruno, F6HHK

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Well, the dongle arrived today.
Plugged it into the FT817, powered the radio on and the blue LED on the dongle started flashing
I opened the bluetooth menu on my tablet and it showed up as ā€œFT-8x7ā€ which makes sense. Paied it using the passcode 1234.

Opened FT8CN and in the settings chose:
Control - CAT
Connection type: Bluetooth

It then asked to choose a Bluetooth device so I picked FT-8x7

The first time round it didn’t do anything. It turned out that the CIV address was incorrect and should be ā€œ0ā€ for the FT 817. If I chose a different rig in the dropdown, then FT817 again it put in the correct CIV address but reset the baud rate to 4800. I changed the baud rate to 9600 initially, then 38400 and both work OK.

I called CQ in the app and the PTT didn’t activate and I got some messages on screen about it connecting to the radio then the flashing blue LED on the dongle went solid. On the next cycle it had connected because it activated the PTT. I was also able to change frequency on the radio from within the app.

I’ve also discovered that you can call CQ SOTA in the app. This is from JTDX running on my laptop, listening to and decoding the audio from my tablet through the laptop microphone.
image
And in WSJT-X:
image

And finally…I’ve powered off the radio and the dongle is still powered up with the LED on so make sure you unplug it once you’re finished so it doesn’t drain the battery.

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Yep, good ol’ FT-817 characteristic - the port is permanently powered

Rick

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I have one that is now quite dead when I came to try it this morning. Life is too short to debug ten bob’s worth of electronics so which one did you buy?

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The one Rick suggested: CAT To Bluetooth Adapter Conveter Dongle for YAESU FT-817 FT-857 FT-897 Wired | eBay

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Having said how wonderful the dongle is… it worked fine on my first summit this morning but after unplugging it and plugging it back in it has stopped working.
I’ll investigate, maybe just a loose wire.

Only managed a single contact on 17m FT8 all day. PSK Reporter has me spotted all over the place but no replies to my CQs :frowning:

Strong feelings of deja-vu as my dongle.

I suspect because your SNR is relatively low at the other end : I found it worked better in to be in chaser mode

But much as I am a fan of digimodes from home I have given it up for SOTA cos it’s just too much faff

Cheers
Rick

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For those interested, I have posted instructions on how to set up FT8CN to work with the Xiegu X-6200 via Bluetooth from an Android phone here:

73 Ed.

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Looking back over this topic after many summits of FT8 with FT8CN and FT817 during the 10m challenge I can report that my FT817 is still happy and working fine.

For FT8 on summits using FT817 I have been using a modified Bluetooth speaker for the audio interface and using VOX for PTT. The modifications made to the Bluetooth speaker included adding 3k / 3k audio transformers for audio isolation, trimpots for setting audio levels, tracing the TX and RX audio paths in the speaker and breaking these paths to insert/remove audio as required.

Adding short leads, with a ferrite choke on the TX lead, enabled connection to the headphone socket and microphone socket of the FT817.

In operation I set the RF power for maximum and adjusted the audio level in FT8CN for 1 bar of ALC. Results during the 10m challenge were good, although FT8CN didn’t auto sequence well and each ā€˜over’ needed to be manually initiated, causing each QSO to be twice as long as normal :frowning:

The photo below shows my FT8 set up with FT817 and Bluetooth speaker. The microphone in the photo is not connected during FT8, but stays with the radio as it is cable tied to the side.

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I found that sometimes FT8CN doesn’t seem quick enough to change the message being sent in response to the last reply, mabye if it’s processing lots of signals (swap to fast decode instead of deep?) or if the last message arrived late.
Increasing the TX delay seemed to help a little with this. In my case I’ve set it to 400 ms from 300 ms.

What is the speaker that you have been using?
I’ve been trying to make something similar using the board from a $2 Bluetooth headset but I couldn’t get it to connect reliably.

My speaker was from a local VK/ZL electronics supplier https://www.jaycar.com.au/mini-portable-bluetooth-speaker/p/XC5227

This speaker is now out of stock and I have been working with a later model https://www.jaycar.com.au/mini-3w-speaker-with-bluetooth-technology/p/XC5234 with the intention of including a VOX in the speaker, rather than relying on the VOX in the radio. I have found when using the Bluetooth speaker on my FT450D the level required to reliably activate the internal VOX is so high that the ALC is about 1/2 meter which, I am told, is unwise for clean FT8 transmissions. That said, I haven’t seen any criticism of holding the microphone to a phone speaker for FT8. :confused:

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I’m surprised this works as they often add quite considerable delays to the signal path.

Yes, there is certainly a delay in the audio path, and also a delay in the VOX/PTT switching. I haven’t gone the next step to measure the delay.
I have found FT8 is a forgiving mode and it seems a second or two at the start of the transmission is OK, so long as the overall timing is correct.
I don’t know the ā€˜science’ behind this but I have seen with WSJT-X that answering a CQ call two or three seconds late still gets received and replied to OK. :confused:

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I’m not an FT8 expert but the more any one system is out of time sync with everyone else then the shorter the window you have to decode. So anything that adds delay probably doesn’t help. Just how much delay? You could probably measure things with 2 systems and increase the timing error until it just works and then add in Bluetooth delays and see if it falls over.

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Or, I could just film my phone and the radio at 120 frames per second and work out the delay from there.
When using a SignaLink USB interface the delay between FT8CN showing TX and the FT817 showing TX is about 60 msec.
When using acoustic coupling between the mobile phone speaker and microphone and FT817 on VOX the delay is about 180 msec.
When using the Bluetooth speaker and FT817 on VOX the delay is about 630 msec. So the Bluetooth speaker adds 450 msec to the overall delay.

While messing around with the FT8CN settings I was able to get the app to auto sequence by setting the Tx delay to 500 msec. This allows the FT8CN more time for decoding between the end of the RX sequence and starting the TX sequence.

These delays fit within the acceptable time range for successful FT8 QSOs with most stations but, as @MM0FMF noted earlier, anything that adds delay probably doesn’t help.

The advantages I find with using FT8CN on my phone are less equipment to carry, no cables from the phone, easy to move around and stay in the shade, really quiet operation with the only sound being the relays in the radio clicking in and out, and the Bluetooth speaker fits nicely in my backpack, so good it’s easy to forget that it’s there.

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