Re-activations on new bands@modes

Old Reflector
1

Hi all sota friends and especially MT,
Already been unsuccessfully discussed the possibility of changing the rules for repeatedly activated peaks, with at least partial point gain. To re-activation in the same year I suggested at least a partial point gain for the activator. My opinion on the usefulness of such a change is still the same … I hope that in the future, perhaps it will be possible.

But today I aim for another property assessment to gain points:
The repeated activation on the other bands or modes - even including digital modes - have also not counted points for activator. I mean the points that are seen in the charts with enabled filter the type of band or mode. I am convinced that this could be a further incentive for many activators to work on as many bands and modes from places that are available to them. Now it is necessary to include the maximum of activity into the first activation, which is not always possible …
Those who dislike my proposals of this type, sri :slight_smile:

CU @ 73! Petr OK3EQ

2

In reply to OK3EQ:

Hi Petr

I can see the potential benefit in encouraging a wider range of bands and/or modes from activators. However, it is difficult to see how the rules could be amended to allow this without causing chaos.

For example, my local summit is G/SE-002 and is about 20 minutes drive away with a further 15 minutes on foot to the top. At present I get one point each year regardless of the number of times that I visit, or the variety of bands and modes that I use.

My SOTA rig is a Yaesu FT-817, and covers 12 bands. If we assume that there are three basic modes (CW, phone and data), then your suggested change could allow me to visit 36 times and claim a point each time. Surely that is not in the spirit of SOTA, and could even cause activators to curtail operations after the minimum four QSOs in order to “save” other bands and modes for another time when further points will be available.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your proposal Petr. How do you envisage the additional points being earned?

73 de Les, G3VQO

3

In reply to OK3EQ

Hi Petr,

Yes, you only get points for activating the summit once a year. However, you can chase summit to summit contacts and claim points towards the Summit to Summit award, every time you visit a summit.

Great fun too.

73 Mike
2E0YYY

4

In reply to G3VQO:

Hi dear Les,
I do not think such a change would cause chaos. Said point gain would not be counted for the total score - retained second visit 0 points, however, was seen when switching view chart select to a different band or mode.

Example of a same peak at 1 year:

Now: first activation on 40 m @ 30 m @ cw = 1 point in the overall ranking,
filtering order: the gain 1 point for 40 m@30m, 1 point for cw and combined too

Second activation on 40 m @ cw @ data = 0 points basic charts and also filtered
for 40m, 30m, cw or data only or combined

The proposed profit:
Example:
2. activation on 40 m @ cw @ data = 0 points basic charts
switched filter 40 m only = + 0 point
switched filter 40 m @ data = + 1 point
switched filter data only: = + 1 point

  1. activation on 15 m @ ssb = + 0 points basic ranking
    switched filter 15 m = + 1 point
    switched filter 15 meters@ssb = + 1 point
    switched filter ssb only = + 1 point

This principle can be encouraged to work with new bands and / or modes of already visited summits, without affecting the overall score. It looks complicated at first view, but in fact it is quite simple.

73 Petr OK3EQ

5

In reply to 2E0YYY:

Hi Mike,
you´re right, s2s award is great fun, too. This contacts are true very nice for me. But this is something else…
73 Petr OK3EQ

6

In reply to G3VQO:
Hello SOTA friends,
I (still) have the idea that SOTA is about mountain hiking first and more fun to take the radio along for summit contacts, rather than collecting points. So even reaching the summit and not being able to contact anybody (which happens to me a few times, even on a rare summit as Cascade Mountain in the Adirondacks, US) is giving much pleasure!
Regards,
Hans, PA0HRM

7

In reply to OK3EQ:

Ah, now I understand Petr. It’s not the actual scoring that needs changing, merely the way that the database works when interrogated.

To indicate with a clear example -

Using my callsign G3VQO interrogate the database of activators using the filter 2012. It shows 14 activations giving 10 points. That’s fine as I visited ten summits.

Now, using the same 2012 filter, but adding a band filter for 1.8MHz, it shows just one summit and zero points. This is because my sole top band activation was during my third visit to G/SE-002.

What would be great, and what I believe you are asking for, is for the specific filter to somehow re-calculate the score to show one point for my 160m activation.

I believe this has been suggested in the past, but was deemed low-priority or too difficult. I suspect that the same view remains!

73 de Les, G3VQO

8

In reply to G3VQO:

but was deemed low-priority or too difficult.

Well anything and everything can be done. The question is whether the results are worth the effort!

Points earned from activations require a little bit of work (>4 QSOs to different stations, not activated this year etc.) and so once that is calculated the result is saved. When you delete an activation, the code checks all your activations to see if the points need to be re-evaluated for another activation. So to display the honour rolls and personal logs, the database displays the precalculated points. This makes table display quick which is good because we dislay these tables all the time but we rarely delete activations.

What is being asked for here is more a analysis of an activator’s log rather than a summary of activations. Yes, it can be done. But as you summise, it’s a lower priority on the job list compared with S2S CSV upload, SWL logging, Hangul support.

Andy
MM0FMF

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In reply to G3VQO:
… Yes, that’s exactly it, Les! Such an option would be great - so by a new band or mode. I believe that Andy would it implemented into database-program. I know it’s still the excellent manager of sota database.
Maybe I’m not the only one who would be happy with that? (Of course, if it were approved MT).

Petr OK3EQ

10

In reply to MM0FMF:

Hi Andy,
Our answers are a little mixed up … also but if you write that it is possible, so for me this is good news! I know that’s probably not the most important in terms of priorities, but it would be very good. The reasons for the modifications already mentioned, I do not want to discuss at length here somehow …
Thank you very much
Petr OK3EQ

11

In reply to OK3EQ:

And if I may suggest another idea that also represents additional effort on the part of an Activator, is to consider the number of points Chasers gain from the activation. This would be number of QSOs times the number of points for the summit. There was earlier discussion of a few Activators that do not log more than four QSOs and some that may quit their on-air activity after only four QSOs (sometimes for good reason - weather, time). This would recognize those that stay on station and hand out points to all comers.

Just an idea for discussion - I’m not asking for any changes!

Etienne-K7ATN

12

I agree with the basic concept of calculation according to filter. To some extent, this is already happening. If you look at a S2S log in the Database, this correctly gives the points to the first listed activation of the year and the first listed chase of the day. These QSOs may not have scored points in the main tables if they were not S2S QSOs.

So it might be possible if the “filters” actually didn’t filter, but linked to other pages that each scored the activations with their individual/independent logic, rather like the S2S honour roll.

However, with 24 bands and 6 modes, this would potentially give rise to 144 pages. That’s before multiplying by how many years we have had if you want that filter, or by the 2846 activator for their individual filtered scoring.

There’s probably a neat IT formularised way of generating these webpages. But is it worth it? If it can be done cleverly and efficiently, then yes. Until then, no.

I strongly feel that there should not be any recognition in the number of QSOs made, or length of time spent on a summit in the activator’s credit. As it stands, an activator need only spend a short time doing radio from a summit. This is good, it is sensible. As it stands, any activator who stays longer and makes large numbers of contacts does so for no gain other than the enjoyment of what they are doing - and I think that is the best reason.

Clearly, the rules do not discourage people from making lots more than 4 QSOs. In the whole life of SOTA, the average number of QSOs per activation is 18.3. That is astonishing given that the rules say that you only need make 4! And this is an average taken of over 97,000 activations! That is surely powerful evidence that activators need no encouragement to work more than 4 QSOs.

And if activators want to switch off after 4 - let 'em! They are the ones who have climbed the hill, so they are the ones who choose what to do when up there. As Etienne says, there are good reasons to switch off like weather and time, and this is another reason not to “reward” extended stays. That wouldn’t be fair on those who had to make sensible decisions to go QRT.

In addition to wx and time, other “good” reaons for going QRT are preferring to sit and chat with a walking partner or family, not being in the mood for radio, or just being bored. All reasons are good reasons.

Tom M1EYP