Quick band changing activators

Old Reflector
21

In reply to G3NYY:

Hi Walt / All

I’d like to apply to come off the RBN also Walt - who do I apply to?

To be fair about timing. It went something like this (I’ll try to quantify my alleged lack of efficiency hihi):

Arrive on summit after a 4.75 mile walk:

Answer the call of nature, take a drink and an energy bar (the first for all 3 duties since I set out!). Secure my dog with a rope so she won’t escape on the grouse moor on which I am priviliged to activate from. Take a few pictures, self spot for 7032 in 20 mins. (10 mins)

Assemble pole, fix dipole, peg out, set up FT-817 with external battery. (10 mins)

(20 minutes wasted time already and I haven’t even called CQ!)

Make five CQ calls on 7032 KHz - no takers, so self spot (3 minutes)

At last - a caller and QSOs with ON3NO ON4FI G4AFI GI4SRQ (4 minutes)

Make five more CQ calls on 7032 KHz - no takers now, so QSY to SSB with self spot. (5 minutes)

40m SSB - QSOs with G6TUH G0RQL G4AFI (4 minutes)

Make five more CQ calls 40m SSB - no takers so self spot for 10 MHz CW, change links on aerial (5 minutes)

30m CW - QSOs with DJ9MH OK1DPU DL9MDI EA2DT DJ5AV DL3MBE (5 minutes)

Make five more CQ calls 30m - no takers so self spot for 20m CW, change links on aerial (5 minutes)

20m CW - QSOs with CU3AA DL3JON DL1FU OK2PDT DL3HXX (5 Minutes)

Make five more CQ calls 20m CW - no takers so find a clear freq and self spot for 20m SSB (5 mins until first caller)

20m SSB - QSOs with OK1SDE M0BKV EB2JU M1FJL EA2CKX OM1AX (6 Minutes)

Make five more CQ calls 20m SSB - no takers so closed station down (3 minutes)

Pack my station up, have another drink and leave the summit (11 minutes)

It took me 108 minutes to walk to TW-002 from my car and 70 minutes to return to it via a shorter downhill route. The walk and navigation exercise over the North York Moors National Park was as much fun as the radio side was, and a pleasant change from the same way up same way back type of activations I seem to do more and more of these days in the quest for uniques!

73 Phil

22

In reply to G4OBK:

I’d like to apply to come off the RBN also Walt - who do I apply to?

Clue: look at any RBN spot!

73 Richard G3CWI

23

In reply to G3CWI:

HI Richard,

That must be KU6J then - I’ll drop him a line.

73 Phil

24

Eric KU6J has added my callsign to the opt out list of the RBN network now. Many thanks Eric.

73 de Phil G4OBK

25

In reply to G4OBK:

I can understand why activators sometimes switch bands quickly. After a good walk you get to the summit and set up. That normally includes a drink and comfort break and in winter, adding more warm clothes. Then you settle down and call CQ. The activity level changes from walking/climbing/setting up to calling and listening. If you don’t get any replies almost at once you tend to feel you are wasting time. I’ve had an initial quiet spell after arriving and it seems you have been sat calling CQ for 30mins for no reply when it is probably no more than 5mins.

Now I don’t find the points as important any more since hitting MG. But I still don’t want to fail to qualify. I can still taste the defeat from months back of getting to the top of Ord Ban and being rained off before making a QSO. So until I have 4 QSOs in the bag, I still get anxious. More so when the 12m challenge was on. Of course, when that 4th QSO is in the bag you can relax!

And it’s that silence after all the activity which makes a short time span seem like eternity. I’ve certainly switched bands too soon and now I try for a solid 15mins before giving up and changing band. Now I make full use of RBNgate spotting, I think it’s brilliant and I couldn’t care less that at times RBNgate fails to read my mind or use a crystal ball or contact with the spirits to determine which summit I’m on and posts the occasional duff reference for me. It only posts when I’m being heard in a time window when I said I’d be on. It posts the actual (close enough) frequency too so chasers can find me. If I don’t get any chasers after 15mins of CW operating, I’m not being heard by RBNgate and probably no chasers.

If you want to put on a selection of bands then you do need to limit the time you spend on any band. I don’t think that with chaser levels on a weekend and a modicum of OK propagation you can now activate lots of bands quickly unless you are quite ruthless. I do envy joint activators (Paul & Gerald) who can split bands and cover 80/60/40 for local chasers and VHF/30/17m for VHF and more DX-y chasers.

So chasers need to be aware that rapid activator band changes are often born of frustration at no chasers or simply trying to cover many bands in a short window. You can’t do it all and something has to give.

Right, the WX looks OK so off for a quick 1pt summit, going out tonight so no mega-jaunts.

Andy
MM0FMF

26

In reply to MM0FMF:
FB Andy, have a good day. If I find that going on the opt out list for the SOTA RBN makes me lose out on qualifying an activation I expect I will sign up to go back on it…

73 Phil

27

In reply to G4OBK:

I found it tricky activating ES-029 yesterday, made the requisite 4 in 25 minutes though and with visibility deteriorating over by Lochnagar & Ben Avon figured that would do it. No phone signal and I didn’t set up an alert, it was somehow refreshing to have to call in the hope I’d be heard.

I don’t think the contacts I made were regular chasers, as no spot was made. I checked rbn after, to see how well I was getting out, there were plenty hearing me above 10dB, up to 30dB, of course without the rbn spot.

I think maybe some of the usual chasers who monitor 7.032 were off air due to lightning storms & there was some strong qsb.

73,

Ian

28

In reply to MM0GYX:

Well, I’m not one of the “band of brothers” on 7032, but my antennas spent most of the day shorted out and the rigs isolated. Though we only had the one major storm there were a number of smaller ones drifting nearby from time to time and when it comes to risking the rigs discretion is the ONLY part of valour!

73

Brian G8ADD

29

In reply to W0MNA:

My rules are about as follows:

a) Call CQ 10 minutes on each band (or 5 minutes if in hurry at end of activation or otherwise difficult conditions). If no reply during these 10 minutes QSY to an other band.

b) Wait 5 minutes after last QSO before changing the band.

c) Change in weather conditions, failure of the radio equipment or exceeding the overall activation time can lead to QRT at any time.

73, Jaakko OH7BF/F5VGL

30

Hi,
isn´t it also part of the hunting game that some deer is more diffcult than others? In contest discussions about spotting there is the expression of “shooting fish in a barrel” about too much convenience. Of course SOTA is somewhat different, but is it really so bad that some activators are more difficult to catch?

Rule of thumb here: Rarely more than five minutes CQ without callers - which is loooong… QSY always announced before a band change. Not every activation will be anounced because it sometimes can cause unnecessary stress (and SOTA should be an antagonist to stress…) - unknown road connection (you know the odd construction site suddenly requiring additional 15 km on minor roads), finding a suitable parking space, surprises on the way and especially finding antenna site and erect antenna, which all can add up to a lot of time. I once had a summit consisting nearly completely of a plateau out of hip high “green” of all kind with a lot of big stones invisible on the ground - taking a lot of time wading with 20kg-backpack until settled at a usable place. I don´t want all of that with knowing about a “preset time”. I don´t want to feel in a hurry when friendly hikers ask me what I´m doing while erecting the antenna - or some of the “officials” which seemingly hunt me…

Happy hunting - especially with the difficult deer :wink:

73, Chris

31

In reply to M0KCB:

Darius, with a bit of sideways thinking you have given me an idea for a future challenge: for a period of say a month we turn off Alerts and Spots and let chasers do their own hunting for activations, the “Blast From The Past Challenge”! Yeah, I know, lots of people will hate the idea so it probably won’t fly, but what a great all-band all-mode challenge, a real skill developer!

73

Brian G8ADD

32

In reply to M0KCB:
I guess there are activations and activations. Sometimes sufficient QSOs are in the log before the first spot hits SOTAwatch. Other times even self-spots and RBN are no help. Most times SOTAwatch is a help (general DX cluster spots, not so much).

73, Rick M0LEP

33

In reply to G8ADD:

Wont work Brian. You can turn off SOTAwatch but you can’t turn of the RBN skimmers. It’s childs play to get that data and use it, manually even, to look for CW chasers. So all you would do is inconvenience to some extent any non-CW user.

Everything you try can be defeated, even by people with no-programming experience. Trying to stop spotting systems is like playing “whack-a-mole”, you stop one and another pops up.

Even if you do that, you can’t stop “phone-a-friend” spotting.

And I understand your thought processes behind suggesting it. It’s just that the spotting Genie is out of the bottle and is not going to go back in.

Andy
MM0FMF

34

In reply to MM0FMF:

Ah well, at least the magical powers of the genie are powerless to intervene on SSB, at least for now! So make the spotless challenge phone only?

Its only suggested as a short period challenge, anyway, not a full year…

73

Brian G8ADD

35

What a dreadful idea Brian!

Consider this philosophical question:

“Is the SOTAwatch Spots facility there primarily to support chasers or activators?”.

Tom M1EYP

36

In reply to M1EYP:
That’s a great question Tom. I look at the SOTAwatch Spots as a tool to benefit both the activator and chaser. I see many activators posting “Needs 1 more contact”. If chasers don’t know the activator is on the air the activator may end up not getting points for the effort to activate the summit. Both sides lose then. It’s just a tool and should be used as it was designed.

Gary A. - W0MNA

37

In reply to M1EYP:

What a dreadful idea Brian!

Consider this philosophical question:

“Is the SOTAwatch Spots facility there primarily to support chasers or
activators?”.

Tom M1EYP

Having subjected your philosophical question to deep analytical thought, I have concluded that the answer is “yes”! :wink:

As I have said on a number of occasions - perhaps too many - the relationship between chasers and activators is symbiotic. However I understand that your objection to the idea is that it might reduce the success rate for activations, and I agree that many activators would find this objectionable. It would probably have the same effect on the success rate of chasers, too, and I don’t suppose that they would be too happy about that, either. However, a major breakdown of Sotawatch would have a similar effect, and as a temporary challenge, an exercise in doing without the paraphernalia of technology that has enveloped SOTA, I think it would have a beneficial effect on the skill levels of both activators and chasers, and build up confidence levels when people realise that they can participate effectively without the Sotawatch umbrella. I have had successful activations without being spotted, no doubt you have, too, and there have been many occasions when as a chaser I have found the activations for myself before they have been spotted. SOTA doesn’t need Sotawatch to be successful, it is a huge convenience rather than a necessity.

I doubt that such a challenge as I have suggested will come about, people are so dependent on the convenience of Sotawatch that they would probably just stop trying until the challenge finishes, but I still think its a good idea!

Brian G8ADD

38

In reply to G8ADD:

Thanks for giving me some food for thought Brian. The radio side of SOTA has become a bit “cookbook”.

73, Barry N1EU

39

In reply to G8ADD:

If the no spot challenge is implemented, could it become an option instead of a mandate? Being a “ditless wonder” (in N1FJ terms) I rely heavily on SOTAwatch spots for my activations and not being able to spot myself would be a major inconvenience. I’ve done activations before where I couldn’t get spotted and even though I had posted an alert, it was like pulling teeth to make my four and none of them were chasers.

Nick K1MAZ/4

40

In reply to G8ADD:
"… people are so dependent on the convenience of Sotawatch that they would probably just stop trying until the challenge finishes"

The proposal to turn off spots sounds a lot like, “I want this so everyone else should have it.” One could make a similar argument regarding the use of more than 1 watt… or a half watt… or the use of a paddle… or the use of both feet when ascending.

I enjoy the convenience of getting spotted. I enjoy working a pile-up. There are summits when I call and call and eventually manage 4 contacts. I do not enjoy those summits nearly as much. They feel too much like work.

If you would enjoy chasing without using SOTAWatch, I encourage you to chase without using SOTAWatch. If you would enjoy activating without SOTAWatch, don’t use SOTAWatch. If you’re concerned that RBN will pick up your call while activating despite telling RBNGate not to spot you, use a mode that RBN doesn’t monitor. Or use CW and send your call sign with a delay between characters, so RBN doesn’t spot your correct call sign. Or register for a special event call sign or use a club call sign.

If you don’t want to get spotted, I’ll bet you can figure out a way. If that makes it more rewarding for you, I encourage you to do SOTA that way.

So yeah, if you succeed in getting spots turned of, I will indeed take some time off from activating. Time off from work is scarce. I’ll spend as much of that time pursuing activities I enjoy as possible. You may call it “dependence” on spotting. I’ll call it maximizing my enjoyment of limited time off from work.
Kevin / K4KPK