A suggestion for some of the activators on the east side of the US. How about spending a bit more time when calling CQ on a band and let some of the chasers have time to find you. An example was this morning, I was up early to chase an east coast activatior. My time zone is an hour earlier than the zone the activator was in. I waited on his posted frequency which was clear on this end. Finally the activator showed up on the SOTA website via the RBN network. He was on a different frequency than the posted frequency. I quickly tuned to that frequency and nothing was heard. Next thing I see is he’s already switched bands so I tuned to that band and nothing was heard. The total time from when I saw the first post to the change to the next band was five minutes.
If you’re on the east coast remember the western chasers are in earlier time zones plus it takes time for the RBN to pick your signal up and post it. Plus it takes time for a chaser to spot you and sometimes the network is slow and the spot doesn’t show up for a minute or so. Slow down on the band changes so the chasers can get to you and make a contact. This morning was a waste of my time on a rainy stormy morning.
This does not only apply in the USA, Gary. A couple of days ago, I tried to chase a UK activator on 40m. No sooner than his 40m spot appeared on SOTAwatch, he had QSY’d to 160m leaving numerous chasers still calling him on 40m. 5 minutes later, he had QSY’d again to 30m. I never did get to work him!
I agree, it is rather frustrating. However, we must remember that the activator is always “king”. He may have had good reasons for so many quick band changes.
I freely admit I’m one of the quick band change activators. Yesterday I visited G/TW-002 solo (apart from taking my dog for the 9 mile walk). I ran 5 watts to a 20/30/40m 3 band link dipole. I don’t like hanging around on summits longer than necessary and although DX and S2S QSOs are great fun they aren’t my main interest. The longer you stay the more of those you get, for sure.
This is how my activation went:
1415z Arrived G/TW-002
1420z Self spot saying QRV 20 minutes
1430z CQ 7.032 CW no callers so self spot again 1435z
1438z - 1442z 7032 CW four stations worked no further callers heard QSY 30m
1453z Self spot 10.114 CW
1456z - 1501z 10.114 six stations worked no further callers heard QSY 20m
1502z Self spot 14.062 CW
1505z - 1509z 14.062 five stations worked no further callers heard QSY SSB
1512z Self spot 14.275 SSB
1514z - 1520z 14.275 six stations worked no further callers so I went QRT.
Packed up and left summit at 1536z time spent on summit - 81 minutes.
As an activator to qualify easily with low power in mimimum time I believe you need the ability to try more than one band and to be able to quickly self spot if you can.
As a chaser you need to be able to hear the activator at the appropriate time by tuning round and listening although it is a lot easier to check your computer screen at regular intervals and when activity is displayed on SOTAWatch hope that you can hear the activator.
I will only stay as long as I need to but I will work any station heard before I pull the plug or change band, and as Walt as said the activator is king (or queen) as they are the ones who have toiled their way to the summit and in my opinion deserve the right to call the tune.
In reply to W0MNA:
I agree totally the activator is the King (or Queen) when on a summit, but that same activator needs to consider the time lag on the RBN network for a posting to show or having someone post for them. Chasers devote a lot of time to waiting for an activator to show up. It’s pretty disappointing to miss an activator only because they move from band to band quicker than you can find him once you know he/she has finally gotten on the air. Weather is always a big factor for an activator and I would never complain when they are dealing with that situation. I’m just saying slow down on the band changes and give the system a chance to let people know where and when you are on the air in time to work you. Even tuning around you can miss a signal so that method doesn’t always work on the chaser end.
I would not feel well in the role of a king. The most pleasant role as an activator is to be the 1st station working a calling activator and then to spot it. Nothing mystic: lsn, lsn, lsn makes the difference. O.K.?
In reply to HB9BCB:
I agree Heinz. I do a tremendous amount of listening but that doesn’t always do the job. Spotting is one of the main reasons the SOTA website exists. I’ve spotted many times for an activator when I hear them just to help other chaser have a chance to make the contact if possible.
My comments are just my views after spending many hours in front of the radio trying to help the activators make the needed four contacts, thus have a successful activation on that summit.
Obviously the Activator/Chaser combination is a team and a symbiotic relationship. In short, both sides need each other. IMO, the primary SOTA goal for an Activator is to serve up qsos with Chasers so both can earn SOTA points.
But Activators have a lot of constraints that will impact this goal:
Mountain people: fellow hikers who are curious as to “what are you doing”. I will always interrupt my Activation to answer questions about ham radio and SOTA, especially if I can demo the radio for kids. This, of course, will result in my “disappearance” from a Chaser perspective. But I always come back to the same frequency.
Wrong planned Activation start: Many of my Activation summits are new hikes and I really have no idea of how long the hike or finding a trailhead parking spot will take. I do plan slack in my guesstimate but #1 issues will impact this planned start time.
Summit time management: If I have subsequent Summits to activate, I have to balance these constraints against my planned committment for the next summit.
I also carry my 2m VX8R and set up MICe messaging for APRS tracking. I also try to communicate QRV times via APRS2SOTA and APRS. And if I have cell coverage, SOTAgoat is a big help to announce my Activator status.
For sake of this dialogue, I do assume an implied responsibility as an Activator to serve up as many Chaser qsos as is practical given the above listed constraints. For me, this means operating on different bands (40m or 30m for the locals, 20m-15m for the DX). And I plan to stay on a band until I no longer have callers, generally determined by 3-5 mins of CQing with no response or if I need to take a butt break.
I am convinced that all our views do correspond, so nothing new to add.
As it was mentioned, activators are sometimes stressed by some factors unwanted but I am sure they are always interested to realize as much QSOs as possible.
In reply to N7UN:
Hi Guy,
Your comments are all right on the money and I agree with every one of them. This aspect of ham radio is a two way street. Both activators and chasers require each other to achieve the intended goals.
Activators do a tremendous amount of work to activate a summit plus all the risk of injury or trouble they may find along the way up to the summit, not to mention the cost in gas and time to get there. Chasers spend a tremendous amount of butt time in a chair in front of the radio waiting to hopefully log that activator. Sometimes the chaser opts to change a planned event or get up early just to be there for that activator. Either way both ends of the contact require planning to make it happen.
My only reason for starting this conversation was to hopefully have some activators consider the problems the chaser has in knowing they are at the summit and on the air, then give the chaser time to get to the radio, hopefully on a band that will work for a contact, and then make the contact. With the band conditions the way they have been in recent weeks, there are many times contact is possible only on one band. Don’t frustrate the chasers by not giving them a chance to be a part of your activation event if possible unless WX is a factor or your attention is needed elsewhere. Those situations are a given. The chasers are out here waiting. We just need time to know when and where you are.
OK Gary - one last point from me, as a prolific chaser and occasional CW/Phone activator with nine years SOTA experience:
I do not like the RBN network and would never rely on it. For me it could be switched off tomorrow, I preferred SOTA without it. I much prefer to self spot with a smartphone or ring a friend (such as G4SSH)these days. if there are no response by chasers after a few minutes of fruitless CQs on any band where I know I have been spotted, I will either QSY or close down, it’s as simple as that for me, life’s too short!
In reply to G4OBK:
Thanks for your comments Phil. In the case mentioned the activator ended up not being on the frequency posted where I’d been listening with an occasional slight tuning up and down just in case. When he showed up on the SOTAWatch site he had only been on about 5 minutes before changing to a band that was not open yet into my area. RBN did not pick him up quickly and obviously tuning around did not do the trick either. I was hearing other operators on the band near his posted frequency and knew the band was open. I don’t always rely on the SOTAWatch site but at least it helps. Your method of operating works for you and that’s fine. I like to know the when and where so I don’t waste my time when I could or should be doing other things too.
Sorry Gary, you’re obviously referring to me. I had to change my 20M QRG because QRP stations were popping up and causing QRM even though I asked QRL? - I think there’s a QRP contest going on. I had to move up to 14.064 to find some space and knew I would get respotted by RBN. The spots show that I was on 14.064 for 5 minutes. I think that’s ample time for a chaser to find me. I was cq’ing for a full 2 minutes without a single response before qsy’ing to 30M. By the way, I tuned back down to my original QRG and heard someone sending my callsign. I called them a few times but they didn’t hear me. It’s very possible we didn’t have any propagation this morning Gary and that might be the real issue.
After I was finished on 30M, I came back to 20M and started calling CQ on 14.064. I called for 5 more minutes and only WS4S called me. If you look on reversebeacon.net, you will see that the RBN picked me up when I came back to 20M but RBNGate failed to spot me on SOTAWatch. I have no idea why and emailed KU6J to ask him why the system didn’t respot me.
All that being said, there are many reasons I don’t linger long on summits. We are in peak black fly season now in upstate NY. I am dodging the bugs with one hand while sending with the other and holding my equipment with my 3rd hand. I’m not looking to prolong the agony.
I greatly appreciate all the chasers watching the spots and calling. Sometimes the system doesn’t work perfectly.
I try to spend at least ten minutes per band and make a good effort to be available for chasers but I’ve had a couple different issues that sometimes throw a wrench in the works.
No cell service to spot myself (I now have APRS over VHF so this shouldn’t be an issue anymore). Calling CQ into dead air gets tiring after a while. N1ELI and I did an activation of W1/GM-221 where we had ZERO service for the duration. We managed to squeak out our 4 each but it took over an hour.
I often go hiking with non-ham friends. While they put up with me and my radio, I feel bad for making them sit around on a summit for an extended period of time so I’ll spend 20-30 minutes at most and usually cycle through two or three bands.
Dead air. I get bored easily. If I’ve got a pileup going, I’ll run it into the ground. If I’m calling CQ into dead air for 5 minutes, I’ll try to stir up some activity somewhere else.
Most importantly, I’m trying to have fun. I understand people need some time to find me, and I try to be accommodating, but if I’m not enjoying myself, well, that defeats the whole purpose of SOTA, right?
Hope this gives a glimpse into my little bubble and doesn’t rustle too many feathers.
I know what your saying Gary without going into a lot of detail. I agree, slow down and give the chasers a chance. I’m trying to remind myself whenever I activate and more so now that I have a tuner and Long wire antenna. No need to change taps on my segmented dipole.
Okay, next time I get in one of my hurry up modes I’ll pinch myself to slow down, maybe the other guy will too! CU in the pile-ups. Both ends!
In reply to W0MNA:
Hi Barry,
Sorry we didn’t make the contact this morning but there easily could have been many reasons. Don’t know what was going on with the RBN but it’s a mute point now. I can sure relate to the black fly problem. That happened to me on my very first activation down in Arkansas. The bug juice didn’t seem to do anything but provide another source of food for those critters. I can sure support you pulling out early when under attack from those things.
We’ll connect again on your next summit and hopefully conditions and the situation will be better. Thanks for being out there today and hope you had a good activation.
1430z CQ 7.032 CW no callers so self spot again 1435z
1438z - 1442z 7032 CW four stations worked no further callers heard QSY 30m
1453z Self spot 10.114 CW
1456z - 1501z 10.114 six stations worked no further callers heard QSY 20m
1502z Self spot 14.062 CW
1505z - 1509z 14.062 five stations worked no further callers heard QSY SSB
1512z Self spot 14.275 SSB
1514z - 1520z 14.275 six stations worked no further callers so I went QRT.
Packed up and left summit at 1536z time spent on summit - 81 minutes.
And total time spent actually working stations = 19 minutes out of the 81 minutes.
Not very efficient use of the available time, Phil?
However … whatever floats your boat. Hi hi!
I do not like the RBN network and would never rely on it. For me it could be
switched off tomorrow, I preferred SOTA without it. I much prefer to self spot
with a smartphone or ring a friend.
Ah … now there we DO agree, Phil! In fact I have asked that my activations should be excluded from the RBNGate system … even though there are some summits from which the mobile phone network is not accessible.
In reply to W0MNA:
This has been a really interesting dialogue and thanks to everyone that added their input and views. Obviously every operator has a different operating procedure and problems with the bands and mother nature plus other distractions at times.
The bottom line is just having fun and hoping the activator has a successful and safe activation, plus works as many chaser as possible while on the summit. As this part of the hobby continues to grow I’ve seen a real increase in the number of activators and chaser and that’s a big plus for us. Can’t say that for many of the other areas of the hobby.
Thanks again for all your comments and hope to make a contact with everyone again down the log.
In reply to W0MNA:
hello Gary and all the others,
I really hate activators that change the band every 4, 5 or 6 minutes.
I mostly need more time for recognising the announcement + switching to
the QRG + checking beam direction + turning aerial + listening.
To stand my frustration I often do a note into my log and found out
that mostly the activators will not learn by experience but will do
it again and again.
That is bad operation practice like stopping after 4 QSOs, logging only
the first 4 callers, doing long chatting until batteries are low.
As an activator I try o do better.
If I make an announcement b4 my activation, KU6J surely will find and
announce my signal within a very short time (5W + dipole abt 5m up).
73 es cu on SOTA de Mike, dj5av
Interesting to know Mike, I simply hope your “hate” is related to the operating practice only …
So please overlook all my instant bandchanges in the past and in the future and thanks agn for the countless QSOs on 12m, it was a pleasure to sponser you the many 12m multipliers.
