Panoramaview of SOTA Mapping Project

I just took a look at the summit, which I’m going to activate tomorrow. When I click on the summit icon of “Seekarkreuz” (DL/MF-011), I can see the option “Panoramaview” at the bottom of the dialog. Pressing this button, a new dialog appears with the title “Panoramaview of DL/MF-011”, that’s very nice, but the shown picture has been taken from a completely different summit. It is the summit of “Brauneck” (GPS: 47.6642N 11.524E) , a former SOTA summit with a distance of 9km to “Seekarkreuz” (DL/MF-011). That means the Panoramaview has definitely no relation to the Seekarkreuz.

How does the mapping tool determine, which Panoramaview to show for a SOTA reference?

73 Stephan, DM1LE

In reply to DM1LE:

Hi Stephan,

Well, speaking first as a member of the group, which includes some pretty technically able people, I’d say one might try to take a look at the code behind the page to get an idea of how it works. In Firefox (also IE, Chrome and Opera; Safari uses Ctrl+Alt+U), you’d press the Ctrl+U key combination (“Source” or “Page source”), a popup window appears and you can see the HTML source code - scroll to the bottom and you can see links to various Javascript files. A couple of these have names beginning with “sotamaps”, so it’s pretty fair to assume they’re written specifically for the SMP. Click on each of these in turn to load them into the window, use the Edit->Search menu function in that window to search for “panorama” and away you go. No secrets there…

Your search should reveal that “Google is your friend” - you will see that the SMP uses the Google Maps API and in particular, that the panorama functions are based on Google Streetview. And herein lies the problem, which is specific to those countries - Germany, Austria and a few others - which have, rightly or wrongly, banned Google from driving up and down the country taking panoramic views of every highway, street and country lane.

Here’s something you can try when you have a spare moment: in Google maps, or the SMP, zoom out to take a look at the whole of Europe, and then drag the little “Streetview” figure over Europe, but don’t drop it anywhere. You’ll see large areas of Europe highlighted in blue, meaning that streetviews exist where the blue colour appears: but most of Germany, and all of Austria and the Baltic states for instance, remain untouched by the blue coloration. In these uncolored areas, the Streetview functions simply cannot work as intended.

But Google doesn’t just give up there: it will try to find something - anything - to show the desired object in some or other panorama in its’ database. And in the case of the summit in question, it finds a panorama taken by some hiker who was standing at a location “near enough” (the summit of the Brauneck, as you rightly point out) to the desired summit to show at least something, even if it’s a rather distant view. Admittedly, in these cases, one may notice that it doesn’t always get the correct direction of view to the desired object - you have to pan around a bit. Nonetheless, it’s pretty clever, don’t you think?

That means the Panoramaview has definitely no relation to the Seekarkreuz.<< - well, not quite: see above.

Now, speaking as the author and administrator of the SMP (which is not affiliated with SOTA or SOTAWatch), I’d say: if you have a question relating specifically to the SMP - especially when it concerns a technical matter such as the one you raise here - you would perhaps better be served by using the Contact form in the SMP itself. This way, you could get a response guaranteed to deal specifically with your enquiry - it’s what the “Contact” page is there for…

Hope you were able to activate DL/MF-011 OK, and that there wasn’t too much snow up there :)…

Servus und 73, Rob DM1CM

In reply to DM1LE:
Hello Stephan.
It was good to chat with you briefly on 20m today. I look forward to returning to the Mangfallgebirge one year.
Generate a panorama is very impressive at making a panoramic view drawing [though not related to SOTA mapping project]. If you live in the northern temperate zone, it’s worth a play - no use for Australia. I have made views for Lake district [I normally use Dad for naming all the fells in view here], Shropshire hills and Mangfallgebirge in the past. It does a good Seekarkreuz view. I think it’ll do drawings for US and Canadian summit views too.

With Google Earth demanding ever more graphics performance from our aged computers than they can give, SOTA mapping project is a god send for “where are those hills?”.

73 all

David M0YDH

In reply to M0YDH:

Memory. Fit as much as you can David. Use a browser with fast Javascript performance. Chrome is fast. The cost is enhanced Google tracking, but TINSTAAFL.

If you still have XP, swap to something like Linux Mint as the main operating system. Download the free VMWare software and reinstall XP in a virtual machine. That would give your PC a modern and fast operating system for everyday things. You can fire up VMWare and XP and run XP for those old XP only programs and hardware drivers when you need it. XP dies on April 8th 2014 anyway, so only a fool would still use it as a primary OS after then.

Andy
MM0FMF

In reply to MM0FMF:
XP dies on April 8th 2014 anyway, so only a fool would

still use it as a primary OS after then.

Hi, Andy. OK, I’m a lid, but the op who told me didn’t offer to help un-lid me.
I’m now also a fool, as I have an old Dell Dimension 1100 running XP Home. Like many other people, probably the majority of computer users, I havn’t the knowledge to mess about with software, and as the thing is sufficient for my needs and ain’t broke, it ain’t going to get fixed. It won’t work with the SOTA shop, but that’s their loss. As I’m retired, I’ve got better uses for my pension than to spend it on a new PC which will be obsolete as soon as I get it home.
Any other epithets to offer? Other, of course, that I share at least one of the characteristics that the Scots are said to have. (The family name supposedly comes from the Border country, making a living from reiving).

Regards (Just a little tongue-in-cheek)

Dave, G6DTN

In reply to M0DFA:

I suggested replacing XP with Mint (other free operating systems exist). Then installing VMWare (other free virtualisation tools exist) and then install XP into that.

That gives you a modern OS on your old machine that will be updated. The ability to use modern software on your modern OS.

AND* the ability to start XP in a protected virtual environment and run old XP programs on that. As XP runs sandboxed, it’s less of an issue that security fixes will stop in April.

Cost: just your time.

Andy
MM0FMF

In reply to MM0FMF:

Mint is cool…

In reply to MM0FMF:

Cost: just your time.

… and my sanity!!

Sound advice Andy but I’m afraid my 1 technology brain cell can’t cope with that! :wink:

73
Karen 2E0XYL

In reply to DM1CM:

Mint is cool…When surrounded by dark chocolate, or boiled with freshly-dug new potatoes.

Sorry, am I the only one for whom this level of technology is way above me?

Regards, an only partly reformed computer Ludite,

Dave, G6DTN

In reply to M0DFA:

when surrounded by dark chocolate<< Hmmm, sometimes: I personally cannot abide either After Eight mints, nor the ghastly Kendal Mint Cake. And I nearly died once after inhaling one of those Fishermans Friends Green Death Mint Lozenges - never again!

Let’s be honest - technology is (mostly) to be used, not understood (pax Andy). I have no idea how my car works, I just switch it on and drive around in it!

Rob DM1CM

Hello Rob,

thanks for your very detailed explanation. This clarifies a lot about the behaviour of the Panoramaview feature of the SMP. In my opinions the Panoramaview is a very helpful functionality, because it allows an activator to get more information about unknown summits. But one should be careful and keep in ones mind that Google is not always your friend :wink:

By the way, I sent the message intentionally to the SOTA reflector, because it should be absolutely no complaint about the Mapping project, but I thought other users might be noticing similar discrepancies and a clarification would be helpful for them, too.

Thanks Rob for providing this very helpful Mapping project, meanwhile it is for me an essential tool for planning my activations.

Todays activation of the Seekarkreuz was really nice. Of course there was snow on the summit but at the moment it is too few snow for skiing and nearly to much for hiking, so looking forward for the next snowfall to be able do more alpine ski tours :slight_smile:

Servus, Stephan DM1LE

In reply to 2E0XYL:

can’t cope with that!

How do you expect to get more competent if you don’t try ?

Andy
MM0FMF

In reply to MM0FMF:

In reply to 2E0XYL:

can’t cope with that!

How do you expect to get more competent if you don’t try ?

Andy
MM0FMF

You can even try it out without damaging your computer :wink:

For example, you can install Ubuntu parallel to your running Windows operating system: Try Ubuntu before you install it | Ubuntu

Another alternative would be to run it from a DVD or CD without any installation on your harddisk. OK, its performance will be a little bit sluggish but you can get at least a first impression without any risk:

By the way Ubuntu is more or less the brown (or orange) variant of Linux Mint, which is rather greenish. That means it corresponds more to the chocolate than the mint :slight_smile:

I’m neither affiliated to Ubuntu nor can I be held responsible if anybody damages his computer :wink:

73 Stephan, DM1LE

In reply to M0YDH:

Hello David,

It was good to chat with you briefly on 20m today. I look forward to
returning to the Mangfallgebirge one year.

Yes, it was very nice to hear you on the summit.
Be sure, there are many summits waiting to be activated by you :slight_smile:

Generate a panorama

Thank you for the link. It looks really interesting. Even for someone, who is hiking very often in the German or Tyrolean alps, it is nearly impossible to identify all summits.

Another tool is http://www.peakfinder.org
even for mobile usage. But the risk is, that you stare all the time on the display of your mobile phone instead of enjoying the real panorama :wink:

73, Stephan DM1LE

In reply to DM1CM:

In reply to M0DFA:

Let’s be honest - technology is (mostly) to be used, not understood
(pax Andy). I have no idea how my car works, I just switch it on and
drive around in it!

Isn’t that contrary to the whole ethos of Amateur radio?
Surely it’s a technical hobby for enquiring minds.

Pete

In reply to DM1LE:

(Sorry OT again).
Thanks Stephan. We did try a couple of years ago , I seem to recall both Ubuntu and Linux both downloading and also from the disk but didn’t have much joy - Couldn’t get internet access and gave up. That was to try to get rid of the dreaded Vista ;-(

I was 5 days without internet recently with a router problem which I finally managed to sort with the settings. As far as I’m concerned computers are great when they work just like modern cars!! Hats off to the people who can sort problems with either.

I was quite happy to train people in the use of Microsoft Office software or help people out with Memory Map but that’s where my competency ends Andy!

73
Karen 2E0XYL

In reply to DM1LE:
Yes Hochmiesing comes to mind because we looked at it each sunset from the holiday apartment last Christmas. And the one with the rude name if said in English ;-D. We pay off the hypothek / mortgage soon in 2014 so hope to be able to visit my parents in law in Bayern a little more often.
In G/LD one tends to carry a Wainwright pictorial guide or, in my case, let Dad carry it to help with identifying the hills even though he seems to know them all. Still these web site panorama tools were a revelation to me.

Froehe Weihnacten

David M0YDH

In reply to G4ISJ:

Isn’t that contrary to the whole ethos of Amateur radio?
Surely it’s a technical hobby for enquiring minds. <<

Big can of worms there which I’m tempted to open just a crack: there are lot of hams who get into the hobby just to chew rags with others. And as to enquiring minds: most tend to be used in just particular directions and not in others… We’re all of us just fallible folk with foibles, no different to anybody else really.

Rob

In reply to G4ISJ:

Isn’t that contrary to the whole ethos of Amateur radio?
Surely it’s a technical hobby for enquiring minds.

Like the mountains : Go where you are competent, If not, go with someone who is and will help you gain competency, otherwise leave it alone. In the words of a song, the rest of which couldn’t be repeated here

‘An enthusiastic amateur is worse than any pro’ (Anyone else know it? something to do with a baker’s assistant!)

Regards, Dave, G6DTN

In reply to M0YDH:

I have a painful memory of the Hochmiesing when I climbed it one winter’s day alone in - I guess it must have been the early 90’s - and got frostnip in a rather sensitive portion of my anatomy, while still on the top plateau in early evening as the light faded fast. I had been wearing a thin pair of running pants and had to strip them off in the dark in a howling, freezing wind to pull on some thermal leggings (nearly wrote lemmings there for some inexplicable reason…). Then a pleasant couple of hours back through the dark and deep snow to the car. Which refused to start - see how it is with me and cars? Happy days…

Rob