In reply to GW0DSP:
Thanks, I will.
To the MT team : Can you explain, please, how our friends in DM were able to increase their summit count so dramatically?
Regards, Dave, M0DFA
In reply to G7KXV:
Firstly let me state I am neither for or against the principle of increasing the number of summits available.
If you look back to last time this was aired (not long ago was it?) I suggested the new list of HUMPS.
However I think that on reflection one needs to be sure of facts.
First it seems the present arguments are an ‘England’ thing - but despite what Gordon, SNP and Plaid Cymru (sp) thinks we are citizens of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, like it or lump it . So the total number of summits, I would suggest, is very close to DL + DM.
Secondly because of the Geography of England applying any available list would only benefit activators in the north of England to any great extent , hence the travel aspect to ,say, anyone living in Norfolk, would be totally irrelevant.
As for the ARM manager being the one to decide - in principle yes - please look at the region managers for LD, NP and SP who would have to agree to any changes 
Roger G4OWG
In reply to G4OWG:
As for the ARM manager being the one to decide - in principle yes -
please look at the region managers for LD, NP and SP who would have to
agree to any changesRoger G4OWG
So whats the problem? Let’s have some new summits to chase, the arm managers must be capable to handle the task or surely they wouldn’t have taken the job on.
Barry 2E0PXW
In reply to 2E0PXW:
Barry Ian’s argument, which is what this thread is about, is based on activation.
You can chase the same summit everyday of the year - it can only be claimed for activation once a year. (before anyone gets pedantic - yes - you can activate in summer and then again in winter for the bonus).
You may not have noticed the wink at the end of my spiel - so to clarify
LD G3WGV
NP G3WGV
SP G3CWI
Most of the ‘arguments for change’ on here are claiming lack of democracy.
Yet to make a change to the G arm would, I suggest, need an autocratic (non democratic)decision by the ARM manager over his Sub-Managers.
Roger G4OWG (now arguing for arguments sake so a good time to quit)
In reply to G4OWG:
Hi Roger
It’s the old hot potato again, hi.
I really don’t want to get too involved in this thread, but I read Ian’s original post to be purely about adding more summits, just as the DM lads have today.
I can’t see anything about activating the same summit twice or more in a year.
73 Mike
In reply to 2E0HJD:
Mick I mean ‘arguing’ in the sense of pro and con in a debate 
And frankly I don’t care what happens in DL or any other association as that will unearth the ‘level playing field’ argument (whoops debate) again
73 es HNY ( I take it that you sincerely ‘Want to check out and leave the Hotel California’ Must be something I said ? Roger G4OWG
In reply to G4OWG:
“Firstly let me state I am neither for or against the principle of increasing the number of summits available.”
I am glad you have an open mind about it.
I cant remember the stuff about HUMPS but if you are advocating incleding them in the list then I fully support you.
“First it seems the present arguments are an ‘England’ thing …”
I have to be territorial about this as they are my views, so I cant speak for GW or GM let alone GI. However, I know a number of other activators also travel very long distances and would benefit from more summits, as I ran out of local summits, all LD’s, SP’s and NP’s done, I travelled further afield until the new year, so if we adopted other hills (including your HUMPS) then my travelling would be reduced, more summits activated and more points for CHASERS. You say its about activating but you know you cant separate the two activities. I also think you are being a little playful with your political map, there are over 1200 Marilyns in Scotland and it distorts the figures for your comparison with DM and DL.
“… hence the travel aspect to ,say, anyone living in Norfolk, would be totally irrelevant.”
I dont know any activators in Norfolk, are you letting the tail wag the dog? What I do know is Chasers in Norfolk may benefit from more summits.
“please look at the region managers for LD, NP and SP who would have to agree to any changes”
this is a very good point and probably the crux of the matter. But it shouldn’t stop the debate, and if I am in the minority, then the democratic process will no doubt play and of course I can always vote with my feet.
"Barry Ian’s argument, which is what this thread is about, is based on activation. "
Not so Roger, in my view you cant separate the two, and if I benefit by less fuel, CHASERS benefit by more summits activated - its about all of us. :))
In reply to G7KXV:
Points well put and taken Ian.
(Some) others please note
Roger G4OWG
In reply to G4OWG:
maybe you would like to name the “some” you refer to Roger?
Barry 2E0PXW
In reply to 2E0PXW:
I couldn’t possibly comment - except it’s not you Barry
Who it is will know and be laughing !!!
Roger G4OWG
In reply to 2E0HJD:
Because YOU didn’t use your corner shop enough - simple init?
I still use a milkman though for how much longer ???
In reply to all:
As Steve pointed out in a separate thread there are many new SOTA summits in DM/BW and a quick look at the German ARM as at Jan 2007 shows that 3 areas were not yet active in SOTA viz Löwensteiner Hills, Hohenloher Plateau, Bauland. Although I have no maps of relevance, would it be reasonable to suspect that these regions have now been included and maybe no rule change. There were 7 regions of Germany that were not yet active in the Jan 2007 ARM.
73 jim
I am an activator and a chaser. I have done my 1000 chaser points and that’s really it for me, I still chase but I am not bothered about getting any more points, I don’t chase certain people now because they don’t try very hard and I can’t be bothered to pull them out of the noise. I not going to make the effort for someone that does not make the effort in the first place. I am now looking for other amateur radio stuff to do, most likely WAB. I have achieved my goal in SOTA chasing, I collected the same 4 boring certificates, (that’s another topic), there is nothing more to really gain in chasing for me…
I am now working on getting my 1000 activation points and its costing a small fortune as I have to travel miles.
I have got some great non-SOTA hills local to me but I am not going to bother doing them just yet as I need every point I can get to get to my goal of 1000 activation points and then I will go and play radio on my local hills. I am not going to miss out am I. My goal is to get my 1000 points and then back right off, as I can’t afford to keep this up. I started so I finish as they say. I will still climb hills, but will they all be SOTA hills, I suspect not, I will enjoy my local area. At that point Chasers will miss out on my activations, big deal I hear you say, but what if other activators think that way? Where will SOTA be in a few years when fuel is at a killer price and most activators have hit 1000 points?
Chasers get it easy, far too easy in my eyes. 1000 points in a few months is not unheard of. They can chase the same summit day after day. What if they could only chase one summit a year, I bet we see a few chasers complain about that.
It’s time to make the life of an activator a little easier and more cost effective, add some more hills to the programme. Some of us activators work dam hard for the chasers out there, I know I do. I don’t have unlimited funds.
There are a few that feel SOTA is stuck in a bit of a rut, but they won’t say so on here, they are not the type. There are others I feel that say the same old rubbish and make the same excuses every time a subject like this is raised, continuing to ignore the real issue. Some activators like myself are, asking for a change, the cost of activations is high and it’s time to act responsibly as a MT/ARM team and take a serious look at any improvements you can make to reduce activator costs…
I said it before SOTA needs to evolve, it needs to improve and progress and adding new hills would be a good start.
We all seem to be debating whether we can add summits, reading Summits on the Air – General Rules it has been allowed for which goes to show what an excellent job was done in setting up the SOTA programme. Below is a copy/paste of selective sentences :-
3.5 Guidelines for the definition of a Summit
- … As Associations will have widely differing mountain characteristics, the Programme does not specify a minimum separation value. This is for the Association Manager to determine.
3.6 Adding and deleting summits
The list of Summits for an Association is not necessarily exhaustive. It is acceptable that the list will evolve over time, as the Programme develops within the Association.
Summits can be added to the Programme provided they meet the definition agreed for the Association.
Accordingly, it appears any change to the definition of a summit is the responsibility of the ARM and adding or deleting to the list is merely evolution.
Well bring it on and save the planet :))
Note to all: The rules allow for it, if you agree then say so, if you don’t agree, I will welcome any financial contributions to my activating programme. ;))
In reply to G7KXV:
Hear Hear
In reply to G7KXV:
probably my fault for asking the meaning of the cryptic reply Ian. Apologies, I agree with you 100% on the original topic
73 Mike
In reply to 2E0KPO:
Sorry you feel like that 
I’ve only got 460 activator points but very few are multiple activations on one day. I have however arranged my holidays over the last few years to fit in summits that are outside my normal days driving (often to the dismay of my XYL). If you include ferries, cost of overnight stops, and long drives to the near north of Scotland and accommodation, I dare not calculate how much it has cost me. Far too much on my pension I expect.
But I do it because I want to. Not for any acclamation or awards - but solely for enjoyment. I have every sympathy with Ian’s plea for more summits purely because Ian has given so much to SOTA and to others with his use of SOTA to sponsor his charity. Nothing is easy in life - thats just a myth of the present ‘gimme’ attitude of society .
I though bickering was banned during Winter Bonus Season.
Roger G4OWG (Wondering what happened to the spirit of SOTA)
as you can drive and even catch a train, tram to some whats so special about them, when i think that there is only 3 summits in the south part of the peak district its a joke.
sorry dont know latin g0aod
In reply to G7KXV:
Sorry - done.
I was asked a trivial question so gave a trivial answer.
Roger G4OWG
In reply to G4OWG:
Thanks Roger.