I agree with Brian about ‘73’, which of course in CW is a very distinctive and symmetrical --… …-- and in use since the dawn of amateur radio, but where the plural ‘73s’ comes from… ???
And if 73 means ‘best wishes’, what does ‘best 73s’ mean ??
Eleri MW3NYR asked me the other day what people meant by ‘What are your working conditions?’ - not Italians on HF, but local stations on 2m FM !! She had of course, quite correctly, told them she was sitting on a rock on a freezing cold mountain top.
On the other hand, we all have our little eccentricities and I think it does add a little spice to the hobby as long as it doesn’t get in the way of communicating.
Ironically of course, many of my best friends who have migrated from 11m to amateur radio, are more polite operators than some who have had amateur licences for years and never used a CB in their life.
I think there are 2 reasons that the debate about /M and /P goes on and on.
As some have pointed out, there is a genuine grey area where you could be either, depending on future intentions or self-perception of the situation. Some people are clearly uncomfortable with this and want every case clear. They would rather have an unambiguous rule like “/M means in a motor vehicle” even if it’s wrong.
Way back in the days before BR68, the standard licence did not permit operation from a motor vehicle. You needed to obtain (and pay for) a separate licence for that (just as you once needed a separate licence to have a broadcast radio in a car). That licence specified the /M suffix, which wasn’t mentioned at all in the ordinary licence. Self-contained equipment that could be carried was much less common in those days, but such operation was possible, and legal under an ordinary licence, but could only be under a /P suffix. BR68 changed all that several decades ago, but the myth that /M means motor vehicle (only) has persisted to this day.
And if 73 means ‘best wishes’, what does ‘best 73s’ mean ??
Actually, it means what the speaker intended it to mean, ‘best wishes’.
Language in general and jargon in particular does not follow rules of mathematical logic. Meaning is determined by usage not fiat *], and evolves over time.
*] Well, in English at least. L’Académie française may hold a different view.
And if 73 means ‘best wishes’, what does ‘best 73s’ mean ??
Actually it means the speaker doesn’t know what 73 means or they wouldn’t being saying “best best wisheses”
You’re quite correct that language evolves. So we should apply some eugenics to this so it evolves correctly and not into some munter-speak full of tautology and nonsense.
“73s”
“The personal would be”
"You’re pushing "
"You’re giving me "
“We’re” (When there’s only one of you)
“You’re report is 5 and 0”
Yes, technically it should be 73, because it derives from --… …-- and not --… …-- … but who cares? It conveys meaning that we all understand. Language is defined by usage, even though the evolution phase can be irritating.
Same for the next three CB-style communications. They are irritating. But so are people that make a point of complaining about them
“We’re” - now this IS irritating. Us radio amateurs can sound pompous enough over the air without pretending to be royalty. I guess HRH Prince Philip could be excused this one - if indeed he is a licensed amateur.
5 and 0. Now the excuse of evolved use of language cannot be invoked here. It is just wrong. Signal strengths are defined from 1 to 9. 1 is the lowest possible. If it is 0, you can’t hear it, so why would you be in contact sufficient to pass a report? Signal 0 does not mean the needle not moving. If the needle is not moving, but you can hear it, it is at least S1.
One good point about people saying “5 and 0” on the air is overhearing the subsequent lecture Jimmy gives them about correct signal reporting - priceless!
Of the suffixes the licence mentions, I don’t think I’ve yet heard anyone use /A (but there’s a first time…), and only /MM doesn’t suffer from any obvious ambiguity (and I can’t imagine anyone needing that while activating a summit!).
I figure I’m /M if I could reasonably change QTH while mid-QSO.
Language means what the users wish it to mean. Our everyday language is full of words that have changed their meaning, sometimes several times. Take the word “gay” for instance, two hundred years ago it was boxing cant signifying enthusiasm, then it evolved into something like outgoing happiness and now it means homosexual!
If it is generally understood that “best 73s” means best wishes, then that is what it means, and no amount of dark mutterings about CB-isms and tautologies is going to change it. It isn’t a case of evolving, it has evolved. Taking a stand against “73’s” is IMHO reminiscent of King Knut enthroned on the beach ordering the tide to stop coming in. All you get is wet feet!
Interesting debate, as I’ve often pondered this one myself. I very often set up at my work during dinner hour using an FT-60 attached to a beam on a 10’ mast. However, if it’s really cold, I sit in the car with the same set-up. So, portable or Mobile? I couldn’t drive off without taking the mast down, so generally I use /P here. On occasions I use the same radio, but with supplied Handie antenna on a Mini Mag on the car. I can drive around so /M here.
I took my Foundation licence last year and seem to remember my instructors saying that it wasn’t necessary to sign with anything, just so long as you give your call correctly. It was more of a ‘good thing to do’ which I agree with entirely.
On the subject of CBisms. I’ve always considered 73 as a common Amateur courtesy and using it rather than best wishes etc. seems a better thing to do on air. One other common thing that seems to be creeping in is the use of ‘QRP’ after a call to get the operators attention. Which I’ve noted works in much the same way as /P or /M in a pile-up. Then of course there are those that make up their own callsign phonetics! Yes, I use Mexico 6 rather than Mike 6 occasionally and/or Honolulu Baker Sugar sometimes, but only if a station is having trouble copying my callsign, but those seem to be common phonetics rather than ones I’ve made up in my head just because they sound interesting!
But to be honest, I don’t think any of those are as bad as deliberate constant calling, calling over a an already in progress QSO and one I heard recently. A station calling several times, he wasn’t picked out, so he gave his call again, gave a report and then said 73 as if he just been worked!
Came from many a QSO with Jack Hum when I was 1st licenced. He used the old British Army phonetic alphabet and some characters stuck. Especially when contesting. Sugar = shu - gar, 2 syllables. Sierra = see - err - ra, 3 syllables. Takes longer to say.
Ack Beer Charlie Don Edward Freddy George Harry Ink Johnnie
King London Monkey Nuts Orange Pip Queen Robert Sugar Toc
Uncle Vic William X-ray Yorker Zebra
Using Sugar for s is not wrong just different. Whereas “the personal would be” is in fact meaningless. That’s a conditional 1 progressive tense and implies the action may take place in the future. So the person’s name may be about to become what they’ve said. Silly. If your name is Andy say “my name is Andy”. See it’s not hard is it?
I don’t think I’ve yet heard anyone use /A (but there’s a first time…),
Again, /A had a historical meaning, disappeared entirely in BR68, and was re-introduced at the time of the “lifetime licence” revision. Some situations are pretty clearly /A, but again there’s a grey area between /A and /P. It’s not a big deal.
I use /A when chasing from my mother’s house in Blackpool, even though I think /P would be equally valid in the circumstances. It saves having to disappoint the activator who may otherwise think he’s got a S-S.
and only /MM doesn’t suffer from any obvious ambiguity
You’d be surprised what debates can be had over the precise definition of “at sea”, even though the licence notes seem clear enough. /MM is sufficiently unusual that there is a certain tendency to want to stretch the definition to make it apply…
Some situations are pretty clearly /A, but again there’s a
grey area between /A and /P. It’s not a big deal.
Ummm… given that /A is meant to represent an alternate fixed location, as opposed to /P which is portable I hadn’t really thought of a grey area…
Surely this is as simple as invoking the “self contained” setup approach. If you are running off the mains somewhere, you are not portable? If you are running off battery/generator you are not fixed?
I think your descriptions sound just about right Martyn. in my view the use of /P or /M should portray the kind of station setup. So the vast majority of my SOTA activations are /P with a fishing rod either tied to a fence or supported with guys; not the kind of thing you can just move. Whereas people using something like an MFD and radio from a bag whilst standing by a trig point could equally be /M or /P.
Never heard a /A but I’ve worked 2 /MM stations in 20+ years of activity. One was the QE2 about 17 years ago and the other was from the summit of White Coomb the other week.
Andy
MM0FMF/W (well I’m in the office at work not at home as I was earlier!)
Ummm… given that /A is meant to represent an alternate fixed
location, as opposed to /P which is portable I hadn’t really thought
of a grey area…
Read the licence and the interpretation notes. The distinction hinges on whether the location has a fixed postal address or not. If you’re in somebody else’s house, it’s pretty clear that it does. If you’re on a hill, it’s pretty clear that it doesn’t (with a small number of exceptions). If you’re set up in somebody else’s back garden, it’s a bit debatable.
The physical portability of the equipment and whether it is using mains electricity or not have nothing to do with the matter as far as the licence definitions are concerned.
If you are running off battery/generator you are not fixed?
What about people who’s QTH is off grid? i.e. they have their own generator/battery/inverter system for feeding 240V to their house. They’re most definitely fixed!
See it becomes difficult quickly so a good rule of thumb is
/M = station can be used when mobile or stationary i.e. car
/P = temporary setup but probably cannot be used mobile
/A = not mobile or temporary but not at the main address
Many setups can be equally /M or /P. It’s best to try to pick something that conveys context about the station. e.g. station in a campervan. That could be used whilst mobile or when the campervan is parked up and attached to a mains supply. I’d sign /P when parked up for the night and /M at othertimes.
In my old licence /A was “temporary premises” , /P was “temporary location or as a pedestrian”, /M was “in or on a vehicle or vessel”. I thought these were pretty clear in meaning.
Note that “alternative premises” was, oddly, used when a formal 7 days’ notification of a temporary change of address for the main station had been given to the General Manager of the Post Office Telephone Area! It didn’t say specifically, but you then didn’t need the “/A”.
