Loop hole? - A 16pt summit? for this weekend

I’m planning for this weekend and I see that W3/PT-007 Death Valley Mtn and W3/PT-003 Seven Springs Mtn are the same summit.

I want to play fair by the spirit of SOTA, but I don’t want to miss an opportunity- if I’ve found an acceptable loop-hole. Can I do both, one right after the other? Long/Lat is same, but altitude is different. By the comments, I see others have noticed it too, but not activated Seven Springs.

I’m thinking it’s not OK :innocent:- but I’d love to do it - if it is.:smiling_imp:

W3/PT-003 Seven Springs Mtn 40.3465 -79.2260 8pts Alt=909m
W3/PT-007 Death Valley Mtn 40.3466 -79.2261 8pts Alt=798m


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Looks like a typo somewhere in the system. The map shows there isn’t 150 m prominence so only one summit there. Certainly looks like they are really the same altitude. Sorry, no 16 points! I’m sure you know that and are trying to give the mapper a soft landing.



I can’t recall when W3 was last refreshed and updated. It could be it hasn’t been done since first formulated back in 2010. Since then the tools used by the summits team have improved greatly so this anomaly would be corrected at some point.

There is nothing to stop you doing both, they are in the database and valid. However, it’s fairly obvious there is something not right as there is no 500ft prominence between them. If you activated both, then assuming you did the activations by the book, the activations would stand. However, it would be taken as good gesture of your honesty, good sporting nature and fair play by your fellow SOTArists if you only activated one of them.

It’s funny that one has been activated a few times and the other never yet they are almost at the same location.

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Seven Springs was entered with the incorrect coordinates (2010) and has been removed from the ARM until it will be correctly positioned (@n7un) at the top of the ski slopes in the Seven Springs resort.
Death Valley Mtn // Bear Cave Lookout is active and a nice summit to activate.

Seven Springs is 11.5Km away at 40.0234, -79.310 and actually known as Laurel Hill

Richard // N2GBR

The W3 ARM and summits list are currently being updated. Most of the major work is done…we just have to do manual verifications to the latest maps because of nearly 75% of changes (lat/longs, elevations, name changes) between the 2010 and the 2016 datasets.


Very interesting reading. I was always given the impression that we had been quite thoroughly “inspected”.

I will accept is as possible confirmation that the simple mapping available to me might not be all that bad, just because there are times it doesn’t agree with the database.

So, if there are a few other suspected W3 anomalies, it would be best to just wait, and check those against your update later - or would you be interested to know about them now? I don’t want to confuse your work.

Thank you all for the responses. Andy gave me the official ruling - as well as the SOTA culture / good sportsmanship coaching. One thing I love about SOTA is the give and take, the understanding that things aren’t going to be perfect. So, of course I need to propagate that behavior as well.

I will wait till the database has been updated - no 16 point summit for me.

The info on the updates coming to W3 are also very appreciated - as well as all the hard work that is being done in the background…

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Up-until 2016 W3 was one of the least active Regions in the US…
activation points are approximate…
2012 100pts
2013 160pts
2014 240pts
2015 230pts
2016 1400pts
2017 to-date 1750pts

Richard // N2GBR

Note: to clarify… these are total activator points for those activators that call W3 their home Association… not to imply that all these points were gathered in W3 physical regions… I know not all of mine were in W3… :wink:

Good luck Jill,
Just checked my log. W3/PT-008, W3/PO-004,W3/PH-002,W3/PD-002, W3/CR-001 there so it would be good to hear from the valley.
Take care.

Mike (@G6TUH) - I’ll be activating for several days. I have several W3 Susquehanna Valley Region summits planned, so hopefully I’ll be able to get you one. The weather is fighting me, rain is predicted, but I think I’m ready for it and will do my best to activate, even if it’s raining. I may also go after the W3 Erie Region only summit. It’s a very very long drive (I live in the state of Delaware, where there are NO close by summits) - but if it’s a steady rain, I may go for it. Then I will be in the car most of the day, rather than out in the rain.

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Thanks Jill, fingers crossed :wink:

Edit update: 20M~ 26th May 1505-1512Z/W3/WE-004~fragments only here Jill caused by high QRN levels. Thunderstorms due tonight so …

Very interesting. Also if any are using a specific logging program to keep up with the Summits
please advise. I am presently using the old school method with a pencil and highlighter.

Anything out there available to do the summits?

Also, I will be starting to activate as well. Finally got all my gear together and now have a
pack, mast and antennas. See you all on the air.