In reply to G6MZX:
Ah, you are a true engineer Geoff. How do you do something? Obtain one and take it apart and see what’s inside and how it’s put together. Bonus points are gained if you put it back together and it still works. Extra bonus points if you don’t have any bits left over.
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to MM0FMF:
The PL259 is the work of Satan and only those who know no better or
are the members of the unspeakable hordes who worship at the alter of
the triple nickel would consider them suitable for use in a radio
environment!
Cast them out of your shack now and mock all who use them through
choice.
Here ends today’s lesson.
Andy,
At the risk of provoking apoplexy can I ask “What is actually wrong with them?”?
I have started phasing them out and using BNC (or even N) types on all the portable stuff. Not really through conviction but the special small bore BNCs fit nicely on the new lightweight RG174 I have invested in to save weight. After some practice I can even do more than one in an hour 
(As long as I use the heavy duty magnifying specs and do the entire process over a suitable tray.)
There are far too many in use in the permanent plumbing in the shack to feel like changing them, especially as all the antenna switches, AMUs and rigs have UHF (259) sockets (even the 2m stuff with the very odd exception) so little to be gained and lots of adapters to buy.
73,
Rod
In reply to M1EYP:
And I don’t suppose you had one in the car either, Tom.
At least when I arrived at the summit of Bryn y Fan, set up and found the 817 had no mike I was pretty sure it was in the car. To be on the safe side I put everything away, loaded up and went back down. Once I picked up the mike and reversed the process it turned out to be a completely dead activation, so it is still on the list of Chased but not Activated.
For some reason I am reluctant to return :-((
I have also taken the VHF amplifier for a walk with no battery but at least the QRP activation did qualify.
I now keep a little case of useful things ready in the car in case I am on a small enough hill to go up again or as a standby for the second & subsequent hills. It hasn’t yet opened and spilled all over the floor of the boot or, even better the mud alongside it; an event to look forward to!
73, & better luck next time.
Rod
In reply to M0JLA:
Worse. He did have one in the car but he was too lazy to go back and get it. He divulged this under cross examination over a cup of tea this afternoon. Rest assured that I made my feelings on the matter clear. 73 Richard G3CWI
In reply to M0JLA:
“What is actually wrong with them?”?
They’re naff!
They’re not really 50Ohm.
They’re difficult to fit well.
Most of them are made from creme cheese and fall apart.
They’re not waterproof.
Everything about them is wrong for an RF connector.
But just as you can make contacts with a bad antenna and not realise it’s bad till you use a good antenna, they sort of work.
The most depressing thing about them is the disproportionate amount of effort needed to fit them well. You may as well do the job properly on a real connector! I also need the big magnifying glass now, more so since I started wearing varifocals full time.
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to G3CWI:
Do you always carry thumbscrews with you when you go out to tea?
Rod
In reply to MM0FMF:
They’re not really 50Ohm.
They’re difficult to fit well.
Most of them are made from creme cheese and fall apart.
They’re not waterproof.
Thanks for the clarification. Are BNC supposed to be waterproof?
73,
Rod
In reply to G3CWI:
but he was too lazy to go back and get it
I am a very lazy activator.
In reply to MM0FMF:
Agree with the first and fourth hypothesis, but not the second and third. I got hold of a bag of crimpable PL259s and as I have the proper tool, they are easy to fit and so far none has fallen apart.
However I use RG316 for portable antennae and that ideally should not be soldered as that makes the soldered end brittle, so I use crimpable BNC, which are superior to the PL259s and seem to be reasonably long term reliable
Jim
G0CQK
Ha ha, this thread has made me chuckle a lot!
I did my best to ditch the ‘UHF’ connectors a few years ago. I still find it amazing that manufacturers use SO-239’s on their new equipment.
I use mainly BNC connectors on my home brew stuff, I think they are great connectors - easy to connect / disconnect and they are of constant impedance, unlike the so called ‘UHF’ connectors. Both of my dipole feeders are terminated in BNC. I don’t like using the front socket of the FT817, so I use an BNC adaptor on the rear SO-239!
Andy (FMF), this might scare you a bit, but a few of my minimalist rigs and my KD1JV MTR use phono (RCA) sockets as the RF connector. In practice they seem to work OK and they’re cheap OK, I’ll go and write 100 lines - ‘I shall not use audio connectors for RF, I shall not use audio connectors for RF…’ 
73, Colin
In reply to MM0FMF:
In reply to M0JLA:
“What is actually wrong with them?”?
They’re naff!
They’re not really 50Ohm.
They’re difficult to fit well.
Most of them are made from creme cheese and fall apart.
They’re not waterproof.
Its the old refrain (refrain=something that keeps coming back!)
It doesnt matter if they are not 50 ohms for a couple of centimetres - have you looked at what happens on the inside of the rig?
They are easy to fit well - far easier than BNC!
I have never in nearly 50 years of use had one fall apart - though I knackered one once by treading on it on an activation!
All connectors need waterproofing, not just PL259s.
It baffles me how anyone can seriously claim that BNC plugs are better. For over forty years I worked with an ultrasonic tester on concrete structures, up ladders, on scaffold, in tunnels, on rainy windswept construction sites, and the BNC plugs to the PUNDIT and transducers were the bane of my existance, time and again the inner breaking off at the entrance to the plug. They are just not reliable, end of.
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to MM0FMF:
I am not keen on PL-259, but I am keen on “comming along as a goon and lay false witness”. 
Therefore my two cents about it.
They’re naff!
They are used in many commercial transceivers for HF, so regardless of their shortcomings we are obliged to deal with them. Changing the sockets of the transceiver is not an option for many OM. Using adaptors on each PL-259 socket is not a pleasing solution either.
They’re not really 50Ohm.
Correct. Doesn’t matter at HF on a length of 2 cm.
They’re difficult to fit well.
Depends on the model. There are PL-259 connectors which are mounted like N or BNC. Look at:
Home
Home
Sorry, mainly German but the pictures are the important thing.
Most of them are made from creme cheese and fall apart.
This is not specific to PL-259. Buy cheap, buy twice applies for PL-259 like BNC or N.
They’re not waterproof.
Neither are BNC.
73 de Michael, DB7MM
In reply to G8ADD:
BNC’s… They are just not reliable, end of.
Well I’ve not had any issues with them Brian and water ingress has not been an issue during activations… and yes, I do have the appropriate experience!
N types are undoubtedly better connectors, but they weigh so much. I used to use them for SOTA, but have now changed over to BNC throughout. Having recently done some work on the TV system at home, I am thinking of testing F connectors on HF where their intrinsic 75 ohm impedance won’t matter - only because I can of course!
73, Gerald G4OIG
In reply to G4OIG:
To be fair, ultrasonic profiling puts a lot of stress on the point where the coax enters the plug on the transducer, with the angle of entry continually changing as you move to successive positions looking for the change of slope that indicates a crack or cavity. You may flex that entry point twice in an activation when you plug in and unplug the feeder whereas you would flex it dozens of times in a single profile, twice for each data point. That just means that you would notice its unreliability after a larger number of activations against the relatively few outings that it takes for a failure in ultrasonic testing. After having to descend a thirty foot ladder a few times to replace a lead I think I might be forgiven for developing a prejudice!
73
Brian G8ADD
N types are undoubtedly better connectors, but they weigh so much.
The RF bits are the same in N and BNC - where mechanical locking is unnecessary eg on the bench, or in emergency, an N plug will fit a BNC socket. Both will lose their excellent impedance continuity if the outer petals are strained, however.
I’m sure many readers of this Reflector know that, but I offer it as an observation because it was a usefull revelation to me when I sussed it out!
Adrian
G4AZS
Ever wish you hadn’t mentioned something? I had to double-check the thread title, and the thread originator in this most tedious of discussions!
Back on topic then. It was Valentine’s Day, Thursday 14th February 2013, and after giving Marianne her Valentines card (she hasn’t given me one yet), I had a doctor’s appointment in town. After hearing the news that I have brain surgery to look forward to, I decided to take my daily exercise roadshow to Gun G/SP-013.
A significant flood on the road just short of the parking spot had to be driven through. I don’t normally risk these things and find another route, but just before me, a car with a much lower bottom than mine went through. So I did, and it was fine. Mike 2E0YYY’s car wasn’t there. I had seen his alert for this summit, so thought he would be along at some point.
The amount of lying water on the road suggested that the footpath to Gun summit would be rather waterlogged, and indeed it was. Right by the initial gate and stile, an ample stream of water was running down the path and into the heather at the side. It then appeared to go absolutely nowhere, even though there was plenty of lower ground. I presume there must have been something of a cavity underground at this point, and the water was getting saturated into a small area of ground, and draining underground. Geology lesson Brian?
The walk up to the summit was more a game of ‘avoid getting your feet wet’ than ever before. I set up the 20m groundplane a few feet beyond the trig point, and connected it to the HB1B, using the SO239 to BNC socket adaptor, which now lives with that transceiver. After setting up, I scanned the area for Mickey 2E0YYY, but still no sign.
The weather was cold and breezy, but dry despite the menacing grey cloud hanging overhead and as far as the snow-streaked Roaches, whose summit it engulfed. The first run on 14.011MHz CW attracted plenty of SOTA and WFF chasers, and I stayed ahead of the 1 QSO per minute rate, making 27 contacts in 20 minutes. Things did then slow down somewhat. And still no sign of Mickey.
At one natural break in proceedings, I listened in to EC2AG/1 activating EA1/BU-086 on 14.280MHz SSB. He was a 57 signal, but since the SSB is receive only on the HB1B, I couldn’t try to work him and this will go into the SWL log. And where was Mickey?
My original QRG of 14.011MHz had become less useful due to splatter from QRO stations nearby. I could use the IF filter knob on the HB1B to get rid of them, but I was also ridding myself of listening over a preferred frequency range, and possibly not giving my 5 watts the best opportunity to be heard widely. I did some running on 14.049MHz and 14.024MHz CW, before finally returning to 14.011MHz CW once it was clear again.
Glancing around from my sitting position, I noticed something in the air. It was a colourful kite, and I assumed this meant that Mickey had arrived! I knew from the alerts that Mike was planning on doing some 14MHz SSB, so I set about wrapping things up on 20m CW. By 1150 UTC I had cleared my QRG, after making 55 QSOs in 83 minutes. Quite sluggish really, all things considered. The HB1B was reading 10.3V, so time to bring it in for a recharge. I will do so more frequently in future to keep the power output up nearer to the nominal 5 watts, but I wanted to get an idea of its capacity. Answer? 371 QSOs in 8 activations. I can live with that!
I went over to say hello to Mike 2E0YYY/P, who was working on 40m SSB at that stage. He was pleased having worked Barry MW0IML/P on Arenig Fach GW/NW-027 summit-to-summit for one of the few remaining Welsh summits he had not yet chased S2S style. Two CQ calls on 2m FM from the handheld solicited precisely nowt, so I descended (hopped and shuffled around avoiding the bogs and the deep-ends of the puddles) and drove home for a sandwich.
Tom M1EYP
In reply to M1EYP:
Nice to see you up on Gun, Tom. The reason I was late, if something could go wrong it did go wrong. There was supposed to be a delivery of my new mobile phone, the other piece of mobile junk now to be confined to the spare or just in case drawer. The driver or whoever texted me an asked whether I needed to change delivery details etc. I replied to their text asking them to leave the phone with my next door neighbour, giving the house number and as a belt and braces exercise, leaving a note on my front door to this effect.
About fifteen minutes after leaving home, it suddenly dawned on me, I had left my boots behind and for the reasons you describe, there was no way I was walking along the sodden track to the trig point without boots. So a return to base it was. A quick look a the fuel gauge meant I would now have to stop for fuel, more time wasted. Next was a contra flow system on the Leek Road adding another 15 minutes to the journey.
On arriving at the parking spot, I parked clear of the myriad of pot holes. It was at this time I received a text from the mobile phone delivery company, stating “we tried to deliver your item but there was no-one at home”!
You really couldn’t make it up!!!
Anyway, the track to the summit is the worst I’ve ever seen it and if anyone is planning to activate Gun, I would strongly advise the use of wellies.
On arriving at the trig, I got the kite out of its bag and tied the antenna wire to it. There was a stiff breeze and the antenna took of like a bat out oh Hell. Magic… After messing about for about ten minutes with all of the other bits and pieces that are required for kite antennas, I was ready to go …or so I though. The antenna tuner was refusing to tune. By now, I was at the end of my wits with it all. Some further investigations revealed the power lead to the tuner was broken. It`s times such as this, when I feel a bit smug, because I always carry a very useful tool kit with me. With the repair completed, the antenna tuned up, followed by a successful GW/NW-027 S2S chase after Barry and Ricky on the 20m band. Now for a SOTA self spot and CQ on the 40m band. With this accomplished, rather surprsingly, nothing happened for three or four minutes until Brian G4ZRP came back and gave me a poor signal report. A poor report followed from M0MDA. It was at this point, I realised, that I’d failed to put out any counterpoise wires, Doh!
The counterpoise wire problem fixed, I worked just a few stations before QSYing to 20m. Things were rolling along nicely, when G1STQ called me. We were in mid QSO when his signal suddenly plummeted. I looked at the rig, scratched my head and then noticed a load of slack antenna wire in the Hawthorne tree. The antenna wire had snapped releasing the kite to the four winds. Not a problem, I simply followed the wire into the deep heather and tried to find it. After about fifteen minutes, of walking through armpit high heather, where one or two Black Grouse were not best pleased to see me, I returned to the rig minus the kite. It was nowhere to be found 
A change to the fishing pole resulted in an unexpected S2S with EC2AG/P before making a couple of contacts on the 15m band. Time to go QRT, and start a search a rescue mission for the missing kite. After a further 20 minutes of searching, the deep heather I came up empty handed. To be honest, I was so sick of Gun, by now and I’d lost all interest in the damn kite. Sooooooo it was back to the car.
About 30 contacts completed…
Right now, if I never go back to G/SP-013 Gun it will be too soon
73 Mike
2E0YYY (Ordering another kite)
In reply to 2E0YYY:
Hello Mike, sorry to read about your bad day but 30 contacts is not so bad despite the problems. Always another day 
When you order your new kite which one will you get?
This afternoon I drove about 20 miles to a ship chandler to get some rope and then spent about 2 hours threading it through trees to try and re-hang my wire for 80/160 (it came down in the recent storms/counterweight got stuck on a branch). The first time I hung the wire was about 4 years ago. Trees and branches grow and I am older - very difficult but about 50% done before the darkness started to approach and then had a look here. Well worth keeping on with the kite experiment I think.
73
Mike G6TUH
In reply to G6TUH:
I’ll probably order the same kite. It was my own fault the kite went QRT. With the strong wind, I should have attached a line to support the the antenna wire.
Lesson learned, I guess
73 Mike
2E0YYY
In reply to 2E0YYY:
Right now, if I never go back to G/SP-013 Gun it will be too soon
Ah well Mike, another summit gets into the little black book to join Esgeiriau Gwynion GW/NW-031, Black Hill G/SP-002 and several others. You’ll have to take up Uniques, then you can say to every summit that you won’t be back.
73, Gerald G4OIG
P.S. Hope you haven’t identified the kite as belonging to you…
