Kinder suprise!

Kinder Scout - 23/09/12

Having had a cancellation at work, I decided to have a go at Kinder Scout today.

Not my first time up there, so I knew where I could park and that made a quick decision to go even easier. I did make sure I had packed my rucksack with all that was needed today - unlike last Monday on The Wrekin! Doh!!

Very suprised to find that the wind was so strong at the car park. Should have brought my ‘Deputy Dawg’ hat. Oh well…not that bad.

Started off fine, but I failed to realise how long a walk this is. Some of the way is paved, but to be honest I don’t find this easy to walk on. Up Burnt Hill, looking as brown as ever and the wind is getting quite strong.

Down the other side and up Mill Hill, which has me puffing a bit. Had a nosey at the remains of an aircraft. Did’nt see much last time I was here as it was covered in snow - but today just a biting wind. No rain (yet).

Anyone have any info on the aircraft?

Down into the coll before the final push up to the top and a respite from the wind. After a quick drink I walk slowly to the top. Bit of a steep one this, so take my time. Getting older and fatter you know :frowning:

Walked in a gale to well within the activation zone and decided to go and hide well away from the path. I am only setting up a 2m dipole, but softly, softly catches monkey and I don’t want any problems with a warden.

Ground very wet, but simple set up despite the wind.

2m ssb. Managed to get a spot on and called from my windy pirch. I must find out how to do that bit via sms.


Thought I had heard Don (RQL) from Devon, but just could not make him out.

Wind really picking up by now and so after 45 mins, decide to have a quick listen on FM before packing up. It is getting very cold and it does not feel much like September.

Managed a nice S2S with Paul 2E0PYG/P on NP-005 before the threat of rain had me packing everything up.

A very windy walk back to the car, but I could’nt have timed this better. Just closed the door and it started to rain…

My muscles are aching now as I am not used to this, but with winter coming I hope to be getting out and about on a few more hills very shortly.

Thanks to everyone today - and sorry if I missed anyone today.

ps. If you fancy having a go at Kinder - be very careful about your speed. 3 active camera vans on the way back home, plus loads of static cameras make me thankful I just potter about at the speed limit.

Time for a hot bath and a beer.


You are right John,I was there shouting regularily but to no avail. Don.

In reply to G0RQL:
Sorry about that Bob - not had a natter for some time.

I will wash my ears in time for the next one…

In reply to G1STQ:
Hi John,
I visited the Mill Hill B24 Liberator in August 1977 as part of a one day 3 or 4 x WW2 wreck expedition including the B29 and Dakota on Higher Shelf Stones and in Ashton Clough respectively. There were two Pratt & Whitney Wasp radials at the B24 site then and quite a lot of other wreckage. We didn’t find the remaining two engines. I remember a ‘stinking hot’ day but very boggy underfoot. We walked down the PW from the top of Snake Pass.

The rumour was that the aircraft was ‘stolen’ by a crew for a joyride or at least that the flight was unauthorised. Difficult to believe but may be true. My 1977 record shows that the wreckage lay at Grid position ‘059906’. That would be SK but there was no GPS then of course and there’s no note on my report to say that I triangulated it. Therefore that NGR could be out by 150m or more. We were also looking for the two Sabre Jets but failed on that quest. More up to date info from a friend gives a scattering for the B24 from SK 0585 9065 to SK 0585 9065 so we may not have covered enough ground in 1977.

I have some 35mm colour slides (not yet scanned) of how it looked in 1977 but I should think there’ll be a lot less wreckage there now. The Dark Peak is full of WW2 wrecks and I must have seen more than a dozen of them in that area over the years. Happy days.

My one and only SOTA expedition to SP1 (with G4OBK Phil) turned up another two.

Well done on your uncomfortable activation. There is much discomfort to be had in SOTA - you don’t have to look far.

73, John G4YSS

PS: I too am a Deputy Dog fan!

In reply to G4YSS:

I think that some summit tidying has taken place John and the wreckage has been gathered together. I have picture of Brian G4ZRP sat by one of the engines having a breather on quite a warm day.

It’s an eerie feeling walking through crash sites as you stumble across the wreckage and imagine what it must have been like for survivors, possibly injured, trying to get out of the wreckage and make their way down of a summit. It worse when you know people have died in the crashes. But there’s something fascinating when you stuff that is very out of place.

There’s plenty of websites detailing crashes and locations on the net. I had a peak at one and was surprised to see there’s at least 5 wrecks I’ve walked very close by and been unaware of their presence.

I remember telling you of the Gloster Javelin site near Blackhope Scar. At the time it was thought the engines had sunk into the peat but this website shows photos of them. Eddie's Photo Archive

My own wreck log:

de Haviland Mosquito, Watkin Path, Snowdon
Consolidated B-24 Liberator, Mill Hill, Kinder Scout
Fairy Firefly, Meikle Bin
General Dynamics F-111, Craignaw


In reply to MM0FMF:

The mountains of Snowdonia seem to have had a magnetic attraction for aircraft! I remember climbing Moel Siabod thirty-odd years ago and seeing a modern light aircraft wreck perched just below the summit ridge on the cliff: I passed that way again some weeks later and it had gone, presumably salvaged. There were rock climbs where you climbed past (and sometimes through) wreckage and even used battered spars as belays. There was for instance the wreckage of (I think) a Lancaster below and on the clifs of Craig y’r Ysfa in Cwm Eigiau on the south side of the Carneddau. Much of the debris has gone, now: there were organised clean-up operations but I have been told that most of it was collected by tatters when the price of scrap aluminium passed £120 per 50 kg!


Brian G8ADD

In reply to G8ADD:

magnetic attraction for aircraft!

The field strength must be several yotta-Gauss to have influence on aluminium alloy!



In reply to MM0FMF:
Found this earlier today.

Think it is good news that they both managed to survive - although someone has placed a small wooden cross at the site. To think that if she had been another 20 feet up?

"Crashed while on a ferrying flight from Burtonwood near Warrington to Hardwick near Norwich. On a very foggy morning in October, Pilot Lieutenant Creighton Haopt and Flight Engineer Jerry Najvar thundered down the runway into the grey wall of fog, so bad was the weather even the birds were walking! After smashing into several runway lights and two failed attempts to get airborne, the Liberator finally lumbered into the air, but only just.

It had been a shaky take off, but Haopt became more relaxed when he gained full control of the aircraft. Jerry unbuckled his harness and went aft to check for damage that might have occurred during the take off. Back in the cockpit Jerry gave the thumbs up that everything was ok and proceeded to take out a map, he noticed they were on a direct course for high ground. “I checked the altimeter and it was indicating 1,500 feet, we were too low to clear the hills,” recalled Jerry. " I Jabbed my finger at the high ground on the map and read off the elevation for that area. Then I indicated with my thumb that we had better get some height." Haopt nodded as if he understood, but he made no attempt to climb. Had he misunderstood the signal to climb for a ‘thumbs up - all’s well’ indication? Jerry was growing more concerned over pilot’s inaction. Jerry peered out of the cockpit window when he suddenly saw something dark pass under the aircraft. " I grabbed the control column and pulled back on it with all my strength , the pilot realised what I was doing and tried to help." They were too late, they were travelling at 150 mph as the underbelly of the aircraft started slicing through the heather, then onto moorland grass and rocks, the aircraft disintegrated along the way. Jerry remembers waking up in hospital, and apart from the shock and some cuts to the face and some bruising, he had got off lightly. Haopt had more serious facial injuries, however they both made a full recovery.

Crew list:-

•Pilot, Lieutenant Creighton Haopt.
•Flight Engineer, Sergeant Jerome (Jerry) Najvar"

Taken from

Think I will have to see what else can be found up there - but I might wait for a nicer day :slight_smile:

In reply to G4YSS:
Hi John And you must have seen the ones on Great Whernside.73 Geoff

In reply to G4YSS:


If you want to combine SOTA and wreckage there is a nice memorial cairn below the crags on the western side of GW/SW-004 (about 700m S of summit point) with a lot of bit and pieces in a depression nearby. Can not remember any details. It must have struck only about a metre below the crag top.

73, Rod

Thanks to everybody for further information.

Thanks Andy
for that good website which used up an entire evening!! The photo of Brian shows the engines very much like I remember them with not much more than crankcases. An accident resulted from a misunderstanding it would seem.

Good start to a wreck log Andy. The Bowbeat Javelin is interesting. I have wanted to do that one since the 70’s as my Uncle Geoff Worrall was test pilot for Glosters and crashed a Javelin, but you can’t do everything.

For me, WAB & SOTA took over from aircraft wrecks but I still like to visit the aircraft if they’re near the route. Combined with SOTA have been the Cheviot B17, Mickle Fell Stirling, Green Gable Anson and some on Kinder.

I saw from the website that a Vickers Viscount hit the top of Ben More.

73, John.

In reply to G4YSS:

John, if you fancy a joint Javelin hunt and maybe Blackhope Scar activation as well then I’m up for it.


In reply to all:

Good research and you scotched the rumour of a stolen aircraft. It was only ever a rumour. With another 50 or 100 feet in hand, quite a lot of the ones I have been to over the years, would have got away with it.

Yes, Geoff,
I have seen the Gt Whernside ones a few times. B17, 2 x Haifax, Mosi & Welli most just 10 minutes from the summit. I was looking at the map ref for your Beaufighter the other night - nr Grassington. I have a Wellington marked about 150m NE of it. Probably the same one.

There were 36 aircraft marked on my Landranger 115 alone but I know there was a drive to clean the sites up in GW. That is wrong in my opinion. These sites are sacred places. As for scrap. Deplorable. It happened in GM too. The only way stuff should leave the site is if it’s bound for a museum or rebuild. That said, the Mickle Fell Stirling was largely removed in 1977 and is still in storage.

I’ll bear that in mind but I don’t usually get down as far as south Wales. There are far more memorials on sites since I started the hobby in 1976. SW4 wreck: I have Wellington, R1465, 22 OTU, 06-07-1942, one engine and bits on site 1976. I haven’t seen any in Wales.

Yes, that sounds great, though it would take some effort to organize. If I find I’m going into the area I’ll let you know.

In reply to G4YSS:
Hi John Yes you are probably correct it was possibly a wellington.Someone borrowed my book with a lot of the grid references and details in and I never got it back but from memory it was not far from Gill House in the direction of Mossdale,There is a Spitfire near to my home but have never visited it its somewhere off Brogden Lane to the West of Barnoldswick 73 Geoff Ps Joan has found the book .It is by Brian Lunn & Gavin Harland published 1986.

In reply to G4YSS:
Have you read “Empire of the Clouds” by James Lee Paterson? Quite a lot on Javelin test flying in there.

Geoff & Rob,

Thanks both; I now have two ideas for Christmas presents!
73, John.

Geoff & Rob,

Thanks both; I now have two ideas for Christmas presents!
73, John.

PS: Couldn’t wait. Bought Empire of the clouds just now. Now looking for the other one cheap.