In reply to DC7CCC:
if you make this activations in SM/VL or SM/DA (what you can compare ~ with G/LD) you would have scored 65 points only!
What are you comparing Mario? Summits with the same heights ASL, or the same amount of vertical ascent? Or maybe the same horizontal mileage, or similar technical difficulty?
Tom M1EYP
In reply to OE5EEP:
I personally consider scoring only fair when compared to oneself. I
can compare my previous yearās score with this yearās and I see that I
was more active in 2010. Thatās all I can get out of a scoring system.
Excellent - thatās the best comment Iāve seen on this issue, Heinz.
Everywhere is different, everyone is different, come on folks, this hobby is supposed to be Fun! Iāve not managed much activating this year, hopefully Iāll get more next year. I simply canāt get excited about these arguments - maybe some others who havenāt commented feel the same.
73
John GM8OTI
In reply to KD9KC:
In reply to G8ADD:
I had once suggested that bonus points be offered for hours spent on
the trail getting to the summit. Todayās hike was 4 miles and 800
feet of climb. It took us 2.5 hours to summit, and 2 hours to get
back to the vehicle. I would like to see bonus points for significant
hikes as a reward - driving to a summit and walking up the last few
hundred meters shouldnāt be scored equally to a 20 kg backpack on a
long trail.
Hi, Mike. I think your suggestion might work in the USA, where I believe I am right in saying that you are required to use designated trails to access a summit. In Europe There is often a wide range of options for any summit. Just as an example take Snowdon, G/NW-001. There are eight named routes to the summit and several other routes which are done less frequently. This is not unusual, few summits in the UK have only one route up them. The result is that the database would either have to list all possible routes with a designated bonus for each one, or it would have to accept a time inputted by the activator and this might tempt people to dawdle!
It is accepted that some summits are easier than others, a summit that can be approached by car is worth having for the participants that are less fit, perhaps even disabled, but enjoy the ambience of the mountains and ham radio. In the UK we have some summits with carparks actually within the AZ, but at the other extreme we have summits like GM/NS-013, AāMhaighdean (pronounced a va-ijan) involving a 27 mile round walk and a total ascent of 3,657 feet for the princely reward of 6 pointsā¦but such a wonderful summit is its own reward!
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to GM8OTI:
Ditto what John and Heinz said, hence my previous tongue in cheek comments in this thread. It is not a competition because no system can be completely fair unless everyone does every summit in every country in the scheme that will never happen, so it is about setting yourself challenges and having fun.
Steve GW7AAV
Itās always good to see so many old chestnuts roasting on an open fire at this time of year.
Happy Christmas!
Richard
G3CWI
In reply to F5JKK:
Hi allā¦
I think itĀ“s a tradition to have the same discussion once a yearā¦
Like others said beforeā¦itĀ“s not possible to do it right for everyoneā¦
so letĀ“s go outā¦have fun on the summits and donĀ“t care about pointsā¦
If you need a competitionā¦do contesting or anything like thatā¦
best 73
Tom
DL1DVE
In reply to DL1DVE:
Youāre right Tom. Same debate due to onset of cabin fever occurs each year {;~D
I had a lovely walk with Stu KI6J up a hill in California in the Spring which was the same height as Helvellyn a 10 pointer and worth 2 points in W6 SOTA - if Iād activated it which I couldnāt. [Now hoping for a faint chance of a 2 week trip to W6 land in 2011].
The prospect of 15 or so years of hillwalking trips in pursuit of Mountain Goat status [at a 100 points a year average] is a good one. No rush or desire here to emulate magnificent people like Bill Bowditch G4WSB with his mountain bike and 316 summits in 2010. My favourite summit was Cadair Idris because the family and I cycled from home to get there in August. A foretaste of SOTA when fuel for the cars is utterly unaffordable?
Merry Christmas
David
In reply to M0YDH:
Ifā¦
ā¦ then Ericās suggestion could simply be implemented - and we would not have long debate here
Happy new year,
Gerd.
In reply to M0YDH:
magnificent NO! just enjoyed the fun. Merry Christmas & New year
Bill & Debbie & Raz
In reply to DF9TS:
Gerd you are right !
Since there is no āā¦elseā in your program, the debate can be closed.
As said, SOTA is not a competition, AND points do not matter, AND AM sets the rules, each activator only need an ARM with the summits listing.
So Andy may erase the database or simply modifie it for chasers onlyā¦
Merry Xmas and happy new year to all !
Alain F6ENO
In reply to F6ENO:
So Andy may erase the database or simply modifie it for chasers onlyā¦
I did say Iād modify it so that each association can have itās own scoring scheme where you can have what ever want. Something Iād term the LāOreal Scheme, as many points as you want ābecause youāre worth itā. 
But try to keep the size of the inflated numbers you all award yourselves to something that will fit in a 32bit int please.
Iām off to go an compare some apples with some oranges. I think if I express thre results in stoats/fortnight the answer will be meaningful.
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to GW4EVX:
I second the idea of having a yearly scoring in order to give everyone an equal chance. It would boost the motivation of the newcommers like myself.
With regards to the question if we need a SOTA scoring system: some like it, others donāt, but itās clear judging by the reactions that for a considerable part of Sota-ist (myself included), itās part of the fun. So I wouldnāt neglect this part of SOTA.
73ās,
Erik - ON5CMB
In reply to ON5CMB:
Goto the database, from view results select āActivator Roll of Honourā. Select the year you are interested in from the dropdown.
Likewise you can select all or 1 association, and the mode you are interested in.
For example, selecting GM, 2010, all bands, CW gives the following:
Pos,Call,Summits,Score,Bonus,Total,Avg
1,MM0FMF/P,25,90,9,99,3.96
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to MM0FMF:
Exactly what I said at 19:28 yesterday!!!
The recycling interval seems to be shortening! ;-))
73
Brian G8ADD
Each association could have a āscaling factorā indicating the relative difficulty of its summits as compared to other associations. Average elevation throughout the association, distribution of summit elevation, distribution of summit prominence, etc. can all be measured and inserted into some universal formula. Points can be kept as usual, but a āscaled totalā also available. Either raw or scaled points values could apply to various awards, as appropriate.
Consider, though, that those associations whose scaling factor computes to less than one will be unhappy, and that the same formulas used to make the system more equitable will be used by some to āgameā the system.
This could even be done between different regions within the same association. For instance, 1 point summits in G/LD are generally much harder work to access than 1 point summits in G/SC.
But no matter how far you drill down with such a handicapping system, you will always be left with anomolies.
In reality:
Who is going to do the work?
Is it really worth undertaking such a time-consuming task?
We know it is impossible and meaningless to compare the achievements of activator A in association B, with activator C in association D anyway - so why are we trying so hard to solve it?
Furthermore, I would reiterate that I personally do not envisage rescoring or converting any existing scores, or future scores in an existing honour roll. Anything new should be a new table to run alongside the existing ones in order to respect the continuing participation of the silent majority who prefer to retain the status quo.
But is something going to emerge that has widespread support? Looks a long way off at present.
Tom M1EYP
In reply to KI6J:
Each association could have a āscaling factorā indicating
the relative difficulty of its summits as compared to other
associations. Average elevation throughout the association,
distribution of summit elevation, distribution of summit prominence,
etc. can all be measured and inserted into some universal formula.
Points can be kept as usual, but a āscaled totalā also
available. Either raw or scaled points values could apply to various
awards, as appropriate.
This suggestion is predicated on the assumption that there is a substantial degree of uniformity in equating difficulty with elevation, prominence etc. In reality summits of similar height in an Association will present a spectrum of difficulty which will reflect the underlying geology and the erosion regime. No doubt each Association can throw up examples, but look for instance at how much more difficult the one point summit Caer Caradoc, G/WB-006, is than any of the surrounding two point summits, or compare Tryfan GW/NW-006 with any of the other summits in the area. Even in the Alps there are summits which are the preserve of the skilled climber, summits which are suitable for the walker, and summits with cable car access.
Summits are individuals, a universal formula would need many terms to be effective.
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to M1EYP:
āWho is going to do the work?ā Why, you of course! Or at least someone other than me. This is the basis of all grand plans.
āIs it really worth undertaking such a time-consuming task?ā Probably not. The negotiations will most likely stalemate with agreement upon the shape of the table.
āit is impossible and meaningless to compare the achievements of activator A in association B, with activator C in association Dā. Quite true. Improving operating skills, developing outdoor skills, staying fit, field testing homebrew gearā¦the list of SOTA achievements is long, and amassing points is near the end of the list, at least for me.
Stu
In reply to G8ADD:
Hi Brian. You type faster than I. And your point the foundation to the ultimate āfairnessā of the scoring system. In other words, it āall comes out in the wash.ā
I stepped on a rattlesnake on my way to a 1 point summit last Saturday. Got bit in the boot- a nice thick leather boot. First time in twenty years, and the largest adrenaline rush in recent memory. How many points do I get for that?
In reply to KI6J:
I stepped on a rattlesnake on my way to a 1 point summit last Saturday.
I thought you were winding me up a little when we did CT-037 and talked of the potential for rattlesnakes. Now I find out it was true!
Andy
MM0FMF