In reply to M1EYP:
Hi Tom
I see what you mean - and agree too!!
I suppose what I meant to say was
“If you’re asked to move on because you are where you shouldn’t be then you have accessed where you are without permission.”
If you are only asked to pack up because you are not allowed to play radio where you are allowed to be then that is a different matter.
Regards
Dave
M0TUB
In reply to M1EYP:
It is possible to get within the 25m AZ using the PROW without setting
foot in the private field that contains the summit (although this PROW
is blocked at the farm end, with signs for it removed).
I’m not sure if this statement is implying that it is OK to activate from a PROW or not - my point it not to dispute what Tom is saying, but rather to address something that has cropped up on many occasions for me while discussing SOTA and the right of access to summits. It seems to be a common misconception that so long as you are on a PROW then you are free to set up an play radio. I come from a hillwalking background that pre-dates my radio activities and I always held the opinion that you were entitled to stop on a PROW “in order to take refreshment or admire the view” - and that’s it (i.e. no stopping for radio, painting landscapes, flying model aircraft or what have you). A bit of googling turned up this:
http://cirencesterramblers.btck.co.uk/News/What%20is%20a%20Right%20of%20Way
Of particular note is:
“Your legal right is to pass and repass along the way’, you may stop to rest or admire the view, or to consume refreshments, providing you stay on the path and do not cause an obstruction…” (It continues, saying prams and dogs are OK too).
Also:
“A person who strays from a right of way, or uses it other than for ‘passing and repassing’ commits trespass against the landowner.”
So there we have it - I just wanted to dispel a very common myth - just because its a PROW does not mean you can carry out an activation from it.
73,
Dave M0MYA.
Yes, this is absolutely correct. A right of way is just that and nothing else. Which is why common sense, respect for others, sensitivy and cooperation towards landowners and others with authority is always the best policy.
Many of the things you can do on a hill are not specifically permitted. But no-one would bat an eyelid if you did them either. Squeezing an amateur radio activation into the “no-one would bat an eyelid” category is the skill of the activator.
In the comment quoted, I was discussing access and nothing more - but I acknowledge that the access I get tends to be with a radio activyt in mind!
Tom M1EYP
In reply to M1EYP:
This is a great thread and could be endless
I try and look at my activations as having the same environmental and visual impact as a familly picnic.
All the landowners i’ve spoke to (only my experience mind) were quite happy to have another set of eyes on their land .
Interesting that we are only allowed to use a PROW as just that while off roaders seem to be able to rip - up green lanes (off thread)
Keep up the good work everyone and sweet-talk these wardens
Next time i go up the orme for a “picnic” i’ll be ready for them .
73
Aled MW0UPH
In reply to MW0UPH:
Right I know one of the wardens and have just spoken to her to ask about this.
Its very simple:
The erection of a temporary or permanent structure requires a permit.
So handhelds are fine but no sticking pegs in the ground thats a no no.
Hope that helps. Do I need to tell any one else this ?
In reply to MW6DHN:
So now they will constantly be on the lookout for radio amateurs setting up on the Great Orme, in the knowledge that their duty is to see them off.
73,
Walt (G3NYY)
In reply to MW6DHN:
Please do not do this with any other summits.
Having lived at the foot of the GO for 15 years I have never had any problems erecting
Antennas (away from the trig point).
Sadly, this may not be the case anymore.
73
Roger MW0IDX
The number of times I have activated GW/NW-070 must be in the double figures, and I similarly have never had any issue with staff or wardens. On most occasions, I have set up very close to the trig point, with a couple of times where I have positioned myself a little way down the north slope of the peninsular.
However, I do not believe there is any need to be so close to the main summit area as this. Roger MW0IDX can hopefully expand further, because the contours on the 1:25000 sheet are somewhat obscured by other symbols. But I think that the AZ extends a little way to the west side of the car park (opposite the Summit Complex) and also up the small hill on the opposite side of the road/tramway down to Llandudno. These points would be less populated with members of the public or employees, and activators would be unlikely to be troubled.
I personally would not describe a lightweight fishing pole and three alloy pegs 2 inches into the ground, that can be completely removed in less than five minutes as a “structure” - even though it is temporary! For me it would come under the “low impact activity” banner that tends to cover what can and cannot take place at such sites.
A reminder also that no-one is authorised to negotiate access and/or permission on behalf of the SOTA programme. Such discussions must be limited to individuals’ own specific request for a specific place, date and time, and not anything more general.
Tom M1EYP
If you want my take on this, a quick phone call should be all that’s required. When I asked the Warden for contact details explaining that I would post them on the SOTA site, she was very forthcoming. Remember what I said in the first post, she was perfectly within her rights to ask me to pack up…She didn’t.
The number has been posted onto the Gt Orme page and in view of what MW6DHN posted, I’ve amended my comments to reflect hand held activations are allowed with a with a rubber duck (the best of luck with that, you’ll need it!) as pegging out a 2m antenna would fall foul of the rules.
Personally, I think the Warden was more put out by the fact the Park hadn’t been informed about my visit, as a matter of courtesy.
Activating this summit without first making a call, could antagonise the situation if the activator is unlucky enough to be approached by a Warden. OTOH, a phone call may not get the answer an activator wants.
In my case, next time I activate this summit, I’m minded to make a phone call first, simply because, I have no excuse if I’m approached by the Warden again.
73 Mike
2E0YYY