Feeling Crusty Today

Old Reflector
1

Did you ever hear someone send “?” or “SOTA?” on an activator’s spotted CW frequency? Did you ever wonder why they would do that?

I have frequently heard that over the past year, and I did wonder why. I have speculated it is a chaser who can’t hear the activator or any of the other chasers. Perhaps there’s no propagation path, or the activator has changed frequencies, or may even have already closed station. Under any of those circumstances, is there any point to transmitting on the frequency?

I can’t imagine that calling “?” or “SOTA” will magically produce a summit score. In fact, the only substantial effect that I can imagine is annoyance to other chasers if the activator is still working that frequency. If that is the intent, then a QRO 2x2 call to the activator would surely do the job better. Oh - I forgot - I have heard that behavior, too.

Being new to the SOTA game, I can also speculate that I’ve been hearing an operating procedure that’s unique to SOTA. If any of that is actually acceptable practice in SOTA, then someone please help me out - tell me what I’m missing here so I can better blend into the program.

Gary, K9ZMD
Ridgefield, WA

2

Actually, “?” is pretty widely used on a quiet frequency where dx has been spotted.

Sometimes the activator has finished on a frequency and might be getting ready to break down but hasn’t turned the rig off yet and might respond to a latecomer who sends “?”

This has happened to me both as a chaser and activator.

I think it’s fine for a chaser to do this if they know that they generally hear well and haven’t heard ANY activity for at least a minute.

73, Barry N1EU

3

In reply to K9ZMD:

Did you ever hear someone send “?” or “SOTA?” on an activator’s
spotted CW frequency? Did you ever wonder why they would do that?

Sending a “?” is very common, it’s usually an abbreviation for QRL? meaning “Is the frequency in use?” If it is busy then it’s shorter and thus causes less inconvienence.

The normal response from a station in the middle of a QSO that the querying station can’t hear is to send “A”.

So normal procedure is to send “?”, if there is no response then send “QRL?” and if still no response then you may assume the freq is clear and start calling CQ. Perhaps prefixed by “NH” for “Nothing Heard”.

Colin G8TMV

4

In reply to G8TMV:

In reply to K9ZMD:

Did you ever hear someone send “?” or “SOTA?” on an activator’s
spotted CW frequency? Did you ever wonder why they would do that?

Sending a “?” is very common, it’s usually an abbreviation for QRL?
meaning “Is the frequency in use?”

Whooooooosh!

:wink:

Andy
MM0FMF

5

In reply to MM0FMF:

Whooooooosh!

I assume that was the price of bacon going up again :wink:

Colin G8TMV

6

In reply to G8TMV:

But with Andy there is no chance that it would be dry cured! :wink:

Brian G8ADD

7

In reply to K9ZMD:
I go even further than a “?” . If I see a spot time and its 10 minutes later and I can’t hear activity after LISTENING for a while I ask "Any SOTA ? "
and like Barry you may find the activator twiddling his sending fingers thinking “is that all”, be glad to get a call and I get a summit I may have other wise missed. To me if there’s stations working, well chances are the activation is in full swing and I get in line. I wouldn’t get too excited with this activity all part of the game. IMHO. I have heard much ruder things in 27 years of cw dx pile ups and a shorter time as a SOTA Op. Read Andy’s Reflect on the knowledge of the Q code as an example.
73 de Ian vk5cz

8

In reply to G8TMV:

I think telling someone who has held an amateur license for the last 54years the literal meaning of sending “?” means you may have maybe missed the point he was making.

:wink:

Yes, I hear ? many times when activating, often in the middle of exchanges with someone, a ? will appear out of the aether.

Andy
MM0FMF

9

In reply to K9ZMD:
This is not exactly what you are asking about Gary, but the following exchange has happened to me many times after moving to a new band during an activation (usually when I move to my alerted 40m frequency):

Me: QRL?
Them: SOTA?
Me: GA ELLIOTT 5NN W6/NS-123 DE KU6J
Them: 5NN TU ERIC DE K6EL

It’s always nice to be able to put one in the log before you call CQ, and even before anyone sends their callsigns. :slight_smile:

73,

Eric KU6J

===========================================
Free SOTA Spot Monitor Software + RBNGate FAQ:
http://www.ku6j.com

10

In reply to MM0FMF:

Yes, I hear ? many times when activating, often in the middle of exchanges with someone, a ? will appear out of the aether.

Ditto - it is usually down to impatience on the part of the chaser. I always ignore it, but ensure my callsign is sent during my next over. It is usually easy to identify Mr Impatient when he calls once I’ve completed my current QSO.

I have heard the sending of “SOTA?” on many occasions. With SOTA frequencies on many bands being close to QRP frequecies, there are often non-SOTA portables calling. I do feel sorry for the non-SOTA op when he replies “No” and the chaser moves off leaving him to have to call CQ once more. I have experienced this myself when operating from HuMPs on 7.034MHz. Some may regard it as polite enquiry, but looking at it from a non-SOTA ops point of view, is this really acceptable behaviour?

73, Gerald G4OIG

11

In reply to KU6J:

Me: QRL?
Them: SOTA?

I’ve had that happen before now, and not when I was on a frequency I’d either spotted or alerted. My Morse (and ability to recognise a fist) is insufficiently developed for the QSO to proceed quite as rapidly, but it’s nice to get one in the log before any spots (and consequent mayhem (on a good day)) appear :wink:

73, Rick M0LEP

12

In reply to G4OIG:
In my opinion, not acceptable at all. It takes only a moment to give a portable station a quick report. But from several posts recently, and from personal experience and that of friends, it happens often.

You can’t legislate against bad manners. Ignore it and carry on.
Les g0nmd

13

In reply to G0NMD:

I think some chasers may be concerned about getting engaged in a “standard” QSO as that inevitably takes time away from chasing elsewhere on the bands. The exchange of name, QTH, rig and antenna details sent often at slow speed can take some time, but I just wonder whether not making a QSO can create a negative attitude towards SOTA.

When activating I am often called by non-SOTA ops and I always respond, again for the reason of not engendering a negative attitude. Most ops can take the hint that you want to move on (easier on SSB than CW), so the contact need not be that prolonged and the patience of chasers under such situations is always appreciated.

73, Gerald G4OIG

14

I thank everyone for those replies.

In reply to KU6J:

In reply to K9ZMD:
This is not exactly what you are asking about Gary, but the following
exchange has happened to me many times after moving to a new band
during an activation (usually when I move to my alerted 40m
frequency):

Me: QRL?
Them: SOTA?
Me: GA ELLIOTT 5NN W6/NS-123 DE KU6J
Them: 5NN TU ERIC DE K6EL

It’s always nice to be able to put one in the log before you call CQ,
and even before anyone sends their callsigns. :slight_smile:

73,

Eric KU6J

Hello Eric - I’ve no problem with the scenario you’ve described. You actually heard a station, and had a reasonable expectation that it was an activator getting ready to open shop. “Actually heard a station” is the key phrase, in my estimation.

In reply to MM0FMF:
. . . .

Yes, I hear ? many times when activating, often in the middle of
exchanges with someone, a ? will appear out of the aether.

Andy
MM0FMF

Thanks for your reply, Andy. Yes, 54 years and counting. OK now, to clarify my inquiry: That little bit snipped from your post describes exactly the behavior that I questioned in my original post.

I wouldn’t be at all troubled to hear “?” or “QRL?” or even “Didit Dit” on a totally dead frequency (actually “Didit Dit” might surprise me; there are about 247 ops left in the world who know exactly what that means). Continuing, however, what I’ve repeatedly heard occurs while the frequency is alive with SOTA exchanges that are apparently not being heard by Mr. Impatient. Is it perhaps a non-SOTA station? Well, anything is possible, but that is unlikely when the transmission is “SOTA?”, or a 2x2 call to the activator’s call sign.

Of course I recognize that I can’t control the behavior of anyone except myself, but I can hope to influence others toward improvement. To that end, I’ll reveal my personal practice - I won’t touch the key until I hear the activator send his/her call sign and invite replies. If I hear nothing at all, I’ll take it that there’s no contact to be had, rather than presume that the activator must be quietly waiting for me me me to give him a buzz.

To read here that DXing commonly involves rude behavior is no eye-opener. :slight_smile: I do suspect some DXers might actually be A-1 operators, but it’s the rude, undisciplined behavior of the others that I hope will not spill over into SOTA operations. Nuff said. 73

Gary, K9ZMD
Ridgefield, WA

15

In reply to K9ZMD:

Hey Gary, Mr “di-di-dah-dah-di-dit” was out again today. My chaser pack were keen but when I asked for say “HB9? KN” they all stood by and let me work some HB9’s. I do appreciated chasers who listen to me.

I was working Guru EA2IF who was not too strong and several times when he was sending and I was listening, Mr ? called. I guess he couldn’t hear me or Guru. One ? I’d have lived with but there were several spaced a few seconds apart each time.

I managed to complete with Guru despite the QRM!

Grrr!

Andy (with the sunburnt head)
MM0FMF

16

In reply to MM0FMF:
Yes, Andy this di-di-dah-dah-di-dit question mark guy is an annoyance.

In the trade we call the di-di-dah-dah-di-dit a “JUG HANDLE”. I’m not sure where the term comes from, maybe the shape of a jug handle.

73 Phil