HI Guys,
Yes, Mariusz and you are very competent I would add, having also worked me on a summit QRP around 200 times.
On occasion when the pile ups were larger and more unruly I have resorted to sending KNNNNN when handing over to a specific station who is being interupted by a lid or lids. That sometimes works, but having said that you are still relying on the folk who feel they are competent enough to know what is going on, who is transmitting at the time and who recognise that the activator is becoming annoyed due to the KNNNNN. This activator hopes they will then stop sending willy nilly or they will listen-listen- listen and then call again when they know it is the right time to transmit.
How many chasers are using CW readers I wonder - is this the cause of the problem? Are chasers who cannot read CW relying on these? I see that some now transceivers have them built into the display… They are poor performers I imagine. The reason I say this is that goverment agencies could never develop automatic CW readers to work as well as a well trained pair of ears and a set of good headphones!
I doubt it Phil. More likely it is just the same as the chaos you can get on SSB - selfishness, rudeness, arrogance and impatience. I mean, I am not a CW operator, I don’t even own a key, but even I know what BK means so it is hard to imagine that any CW operator would be that ignorant.
I agree, this is the problem, plus a good dose of not listenning.
I had to waste over 2 minutes in my last activation because I picked up F5 in the pile-up, I guessed he was F5LKW so I gave him signal report, then he returned F5??? as well as 2 or 3 others which not even had F5 in their callsign and were stronger than the F5 not letting me copy the suffix. Then I clearly asked ONLY F5 and again the same thing, the F5??? smashed by other 2 chasers calling on top of him and not having F5 in their callsigns. Again I asked QRX ALL, PSE ONLY F5 and, believe or not, again the same thing, the F5??? and the stubborn LID chaser calling on top of him not letting me copy the suffix. Once again I sent QRX ALL ONLY F5? F5? and it was only then when, finally, @F5HTR only came back to me and we could complete our QSO. His signal was very good, a real 599, but the other deaf chasers not paying attention to what I was sending were even stronger. They didn’t get the QSO and they made me and the whole pile of chasers waste nearly 3 minutes. I hope one day they all will understand how things go in a pile-up. It’s just a question of intelligence, gentlemanship and education.
73,
Hola Guru, when I transmit F5? , Am I still transmit F5? until you copy it and there is the log. I will try PSE ONLY F5, and if in spite of everything xx0LID keeps insisting, I will say XX# LID NOT IN LOG. Probably XX # LID will answer me with a 599 TU.
When I started in radio, they told me: first listen, and then listen again.
Sorry if I ever call by error.
73
Pretty much every CW SOTA op that I know of is guilty of “violating” the use of K in some form or another. Also, I’ve never heard AR used at the end of a CQ…ever…by a SOTA Op or any other op for that matter.
I agree with most everything said here. It’s been a downhill slide
for CW over the years. Many operators just don’t know the Q signals,
don’t know the more common abbreviations and prosigns. And I hear a lot of stations in conversation spelling out long words, etc. I suppose they’re using a keyboard to send? The American ham exams are really lacking in questions about “operating a ham station”. I hear some
new hams that just don’t have a clue about operating, like maybe
they never listened to ham radio until they received their license!
And if you’ve listened to DX pileups you’ve probably heard a lot
worse manners than in a SOTA pile. There are some folks that just
don’t listen to the station they’re calling, and don’t care about anything
except to get the station in their log.
And as you say, Jeff, they may have not even worked the station because he came back to someone else…
Agreed! Please, if you are new to CW, please learn the common prosigns - these are as important as the code itself! Pile-ups are fairly common on a summit with a mix of strong and weak signals - so if you’re asked to wait (AS) - please do - we will get to you! And, if you send “QRL?” to see if a freq is in use, a short, common, age-old response might be “C” - which stands for “correct”, which means “yes, this frequency is in use”. If the freq sounds in use - it’s in use! There’s nothing more fun that working a string of stations, when a powerhouse comes on with a single QRL and follows that with a string of CQs.
I’m sure we are all guilty of CW missteps from time to time…so let’s learn from them and be better ops.
In the 60s we learned to use AR at the end of each transmission, but it has faded, like the Beatles on Hey Jude… it is rare these days…
BTW I read this week that it was John Lennon’s birthday he would have been 80 this year…
Yes, sir! AR K was the usual end of a transmission.
In ham traffic handling here in the USA we would send
“AR” at the end of the message. It would be “AR N” if there
were no more messages. It would be “AR B” if there were more.
Then the receiving station would either say “QRV” or just “K”
to the sending station to continue with the next message.
(some of the real pros would say “dit” meaning go ahead).
One old boy used to tell me “dit QRQ” (Go ahead and speed it up)!
Those were great days of doing CW!
Anyone remember the BPL (Brass Pounder’s League)?
73
John, K6YK
Thanks Bostjan for sharing file.
I will change my useful. I was wrong for 30 years !
Now I will send :
CQ CQ CQ de F5LKW/P F5LKW/P "K " or "AR … B4 ==> PSE K - seems to be a nonsence.
S52FT de F5LKW/P “KN” and … B4 ==> BK (Good news to Phil @G4OBK)
73 S52FT de F5LKW/P “SK” … B4 ==> TU EE
Andy, that “CT” or dah di dah di dah used to mean “attention”.
Some stations would send that a couple of times before starting
their transmission. Maybe in commercial service a shore station might send that before sending out a broadcast to all ships. Sure don’t hear that one much anymore !
73
K6YK
I think I’ve seen almost as many arguments on the Net about CW QSO protocol as I’ve seen about ways of learning Morse. I know I’ve seen conversations where the protocols described in that document were challenged by experienced operators (for instance, over the use of AR…).
I guess the trick is to try to use as clear and concise a protocol as is practical, and try to avoid things that cause confusion, bearing in mind that what works in one situation might not work in others, and not everyone learned the same way…
For now, in the interest of simplicity, I’ll most likely stick with operating procedures based on what I hear other SOTA/POTA activators and chasers using. The AR vs K when calling CQ debate is not exactly at the top of my priority list these days.
!
I know I’ve seen conversations where the protocols described in that document were challenged by experienced operators (for instance, over the use of AR…).