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Competition

Now i know radio can be very competive but i was really shocked when a M0 was abusive at me because i was calling a station he was trying to contact he said i was calling over the activator now please would other users please remember there are always a few of us chasing the activators and every one is bound to tread on some one some time also some of us only use ten watts so we have to some times shout a bit louder i do not want to ruffle any bodys feathers with this topic but please lets all play nice and lets enjoy our sota if we are activators or chasers people can be offended and i for one was Dave M3XIE

In reply to M3XIE:

also some of us only use ten watts

Quite.

73,
Walt (G3NYY)

In reply to M3XIE-1:

I often think it would be good practice if activators (or anyone working through a pile-up) would occasionally break from answering the strongest and loudest callers to call for any QRP or mobile stations. The best operators sometimes do this.

This would make it easier for the small guns to break through without having to sit through a pile-up for 40 minutes waiting for it to subside.

I think QRP is more of a challenge than using kilowatts of power and stacked beams anyway!

What do others think?

73

Nick
M6NJB (QRP)

In reply to M6NJB:

What do others think?

Right. It is more the signal readability than strength.

73, Jaakko OH7BF/F5VGL

In reply to M3XIE:

One problem is when activators go back to the first station they can identify while the pile-up is still calling, this can waste time because the station they are calling often doesn’t hear their call because of the pile-up and they have to call him again: this might be what happened to you, Dave, the cause of being accused of calling on top of the activator. It would be better for the activator to go back to an identified station as the pile-up subsides…mind you, there are too many chasers that call repeatedly without listening for a pile-up ever to go really quiet! Then there are the time-wasters that call the activator but don’t go back to him when he answers them, obviously they can’t hear him but are calling on spec, I heard that a couple of times this morning with DL/PA3FYG!

Anyway, Dave, you will get this sort of thing from time to time, just let it slide off you - the guy was in the wrong to mouth off on you on the activators frequency, clearly a lid! Only the activator has the right to run his pile-up.

73

Brian G8ADD

In reply to M6NJB:

What do others think?

I suspect many (most? all?) SOTA activators are more QRP-aware than the average caller, but, presumably, a lot depends on how readable the callsigns are. I sometimes listen to the mish-mash of noise that follows a “CQ” or “QRZ” and just hope the activator is getting something clearer than I’m hearing…

In reply to G8ADD:

mind you, there are too many chasers that call repeatedly without listening
for a pile-up ever to go really quiet!

Yeah, the “pile-up calling” stage sometimes lasts a while longer than seems reasonable…

obviously they can’t hear him but are calling on spec, I heard that a couple
of times this morning with DL/PA3FYG!

Frustrating (non-)exchanges, those were, particularly as the deaf caller kept coming in again and again at random intervals… :frowning:

let it slide off

…and sometimes the best thing to do is to tune away. :confused:

73, Rick M0LEP

In reply to M3XIE-1:

Congratulations on doing a “Streisand Effect”!

I’d have just ignored whoever complained and got on with working the activator. Everyone will be listening to check your on-air manners from now on.

In reply to M6NJB:

to call for any QRP or mobile stations.

Why? QRP is a choice as is operating mobile. There’s nothing I find more annoying than hearing someone sign as “G9XXX stroke Q R P”. For some reason I’m expected to work them in preference to all others because they have chosen to operate at low power. Their choice, accept the consequences.

Andy, MM0FMF
QRP on HF
QRO on VHF and up

In reply to MM0FMF:
Hi Dave.
Sorry to hear you have been told off.
Just ignore it all Dave. Radio should be fun and if a few want to spoil it then sod them.
Can’t remember any time when I would question your operating technique, so don’t rise to the bait Dave. Keep on going to 2nd sloath :slight_smile:

In reply to M3XIE-1:
hello SOTAs,
calling over the activator has nothing to do with using QRP
but with lack of listening.

Listen for Ambrosi, HB9AGH, to find out about working SOTA
and DX with 100W and GP without QRMing activator or callers.

I guess half of the chasers transmit their call 2 or 3 times.
The 2nd transmission of your call already blocks the SOTA QRG
for all other callers and the goat…

73 de Mike, dj5av
200W + dipole on 30/40/80m

In reply to DJ5AV:
well said Mike. I always have an ear for weaker stations, and other portables.
It does even happen that I “do not hear” very strong stations (with bad manners, hi)

73 kurt HB9AFI

In reply to HB9AFI:

Wow! I can’t wait to get these problems here in NA …

In reply to MM0FMF:

In reply to M6NJB:

to call for any QRP or mobile stations.

Why? QRP is a choice as is operating mobile. There’s nothing I find
more annoying than hearing someone sign as “G9XXX stroke Q R
P”. For some reason I’m expected to work them in preference to
all others because they have chosen to operate at low power. Their
choice, accept the consequences.

LOL

I have to say that it pees me off when I am on a hill and someone calls “Stroke QRP”, because I always want to shout “That’s funny so am I! You see I did not fancy carrying a 2 kilowatt linear and three car batteries up this one.” or “Of course you are QRP! You are an foundation licencee and your licence permits you ten watts max.”

Steve GW7AAV

In reply to GW7AAV:
Please forgive me steve just to say i do not call qrp when im trying to chase the activators yes i agree i can only use ten watts is that my choice no,Would i like to do the intermediate course yes,Why do i not do it then because i am virtually housebound but all i was trying to get across when i wrote this thread at the begining is we are all entitled to have a go at any summitt we hear and some one is always going to get trodden on in the pile up that follows thanks Dave M3XIE

In reply to GW7AAV:
Officially, at least among the QRP fraternity, QRP is less than 5W, although GQRP alone put the limit for SSB as 10W.

In the past few days I have been calling activators with my K2 set at 1W output. No problem working them at this level, even in some cases breaking straight through a pileup on the first call. I do think at times people use far more power than is necessary.

73 Dave G3YMC

Why? QRP is a choice as is operating mobile. There’s nothing I find
more annoying than hearing someone sign as “G9XXX stroke Q R
P”. For some reason I’m expected to work them in preference to
all others because they have chosen to operate at low power. Their
choice, accept the consequences.

Andy, MM0FMF

That’s a bit harsh if you don’t mind me saying so Andy!

The whole ethos of amateur radio is to help one another in research and experimentation. QRP stations, whether low power by choice or by design (foundation licencees for example) are entitled to be heard as much as the big guns running kilowatts of power. By the very nature of low power, they will be trampled on in any pile-up unless they are fortunate to have a good DX path to the DX station and ‘luck out’.

It’s no trouble surely to call for QRP stations once or twice in a 40 minute pile-up to assist one’s fellow man/woman.

After all, SOTA isn’t a contest, it’s not a competition with each other, it’s a leisure activity coupled with propogation research and, above all, a fun and challenging activity to gain a personal reward.

I agree with you Andy regarding the over use of the QRP suffix. I only use it when I think it might attract the DX operator’s attention when he’s just responding to the loudest and most persistent of callers!

Let’s be sociable and helpful to each other whenever possible!

73 and Happy Easter!
Nick M6NJB

In reply to M6NJB:

That’s a bit harsh if you don’t mind me saying so Andy!

I don’t mind you speaking your mind Nick. Even if you’re not right! :wink:

QRP stations, whether low power by choice or by
design (foundation licencees for example) are entitled to be heard as
much as the big guns running kilowatts of power.

No they’re not. Nobody has any entitlement to be worked or heard whether they are running femtowatts or megawatts, whether it’s their first time on air or they’re Marconi themselves. It’s a lottery and we are equal.

The only exception is for S2S calls. I know what it’s like to be in rotten conditions knowing you have to dismantle the station, pack away without getting too cold and then walk for a few hours to get to the car. Enabling those stations to complete their activations is simply common sense. All activators know what it’s like to be stuck listening to someone who is clueless as to the WX high on a hill in February. They drone on about their inside leg measurement and hat size and whether they have upholstered armrests on the shack chair whilst you’re sat there thinking of how to minimise the gloves off pack away time and you’re wishing they’d shut up so you can work a few more before it gets too cold/dark etc.

You’ll discover when you’ve upgraded to the full licence that even running 100W or more won’t make the difference you might expect in a pileup. There’s more than just how loud you are to cracking it. Operating skill plays a huge amount in being worked quickly. e.g. Roy G4SSH on CW. I find it strange that many of the other chasers have yet to follow Roy’s operating practice that makes his average power/antenna station’s signal stand head and shoulders clear of the others calling. If I told they’d all do it and I’d be back to square one.

Andy
MM0FMF

In reply to M3XIE-1:
Thing is Dave, is that you clearly didn’t do it deliberately. Waiting in Pile-ups seems to bring out the worst in many and there are plenty of deliberately bad operators out there! I’m sure I’ve made mistakes, but they are just that - mistakes. Listening to pile-ups, SOTA or otherwise, always brings a few ‘eyebrow raisers’ with me.

Although I agree with what Andy said in that no-one has a right to be worked, I must admit it is appreciated when operators have a slot for lower power stations now and again. The stations who call several times are annoying as are ones who jump straight in and get a response then have to ask what the operators callsign is, becasue they haven’t bothered to listen and find out what the station they are calling is about. I heard one such station earlier. Another bug-bear are people who hold up SES’s or such like, asking questions that have already been answered a dozen times (or are available online). These inviduals will even continue after being told that the operator has ‘lots of others calling’.

Jonathan
M6HBS

In reply to MM0FMF:

QRP stations, whether low power by choice or by
design (foundation licencees for example) are entitled to be
heard as
much as the big guns running kilowatts of power. [Nick]

No they’re not. Nobody has any entitlement to be worked or heard
whether they are running femtowatts or megawatts . . . [Andy]

OK, perhaps ‘entitlement’ is a strong word, but my main point is, and I reiterate, that as a fraternity we’re here to help each other whenever and wherever possible and not hinder each other for our own benefit.

As for being insensitive during QSOs and trying to gain an advantage during pile-ups, I guess it’s human nature to stretch the etiquette somewhat by calling late, calling multiple times, using short-form of call signs, yelling etc; I’m sure we’ve all fallen into this trap from time to time. Patience is a virtue!

I still maintain that QRP is a mode in itself and deserves (another strong word?) to be catered for in the grand scheme of things. Otherwise, where is the challenge in AR?

Nick
M6NJB

In reply to M6NJB:

As for being insensitive during QSOs and trying to gain an advantage
during pile-ups, I guess it’s human nature to stretch the etiquette
somewhat by calling late, calling multiple times, using short-form of
call signs, yelling etc; I’m sure we’ve all fallen into this trap from
time to time. Patience is a virtue!

Most of those don’t stretch etiquette and are not a trap, they assist the activator by making it possible to isolate one callsign in a wall of sound: if we all called once and promptly then the contact (if any) would go to the longest callsign, more likely the activator will be left bewildered by the racket and have to call again! I think that there are times when the activators would manage their pile-ups better if they called by numbers and deafed out the callers who ignore instructions - as long as they cycled through the numbers quickly, as an 8 I am near the back of the queue!

73

Brian G8ADD

In reply to M6NJB:

but my main point is, and
I reiterate, that as a fraternity we’re here to help each other
whenever and wherever possible and not hinder each other for our own
benefit.

I’m sure you will find every radio amateur will be very keen to help you and not hinder you after they have worked the DX but not before. And by worked I mean after they have worked the DX with every mode they can use on every band they can use and with every callsign they own. Then, and only then, they’ll stand by so you can work the DX.

Thus it is and has always been so ever since Marconi sat in Newfoundland trying to hear Poldhu whilst IT9RYH’s great-grandfather kept sending on the same frequency saying the frequency was not reserved for DX stations! :wink:

I still maintain that QRP is a mode in itself and deserves (another
strong word?) to be catered for in the grand scheme of things.

Only because you are limited to QRP by legislation and not through choice. When you have completed your license upgrade and you choose to operate QRP the last thing you’ll want is people giving you a free ride… that takes away the challenge.

Andy
MM0FMF