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"By car to the top" problems

Please, can I ask you for your opinion for " By car to the top" problems ?

Where must I stop my car if I want make a SOTA QSO ?

We are having hard discusion about the problem in OK association.
Basicaly there are two extrems views.

First briefly:
I can stop my car directly next to stone which marks the top. Then I can do one-two steps to don’t touch my car and do final acces in myself power. And than I can start to make first QSO.
Everything is OK becuase I keep all SOTA rules.

Opposite second:
I have to stop my car below summit and must go up to the top through 150 meters superelevation minimally.
Everything is OK because I keep spirit of SOTA.

Please, where is the truth ?
Yes I know “In vino veritas”, but there I havn’t found it yet. :wink:

I’ll will be interested of all of your opinions (by MT’s, activators and chasers).

TNX

Igor OK1TGI

I’m not sure if something similar has been solved here, maybe yes but I didn’t find it.

In reply to OK1TGI:

From rule 3.7.3: Operations must not be in, or in the vicinity of a motor vehicle. Rule 3.7.14: All SOTA operations are expected to be conducted in the spirit of the program.

It would not be in the spirit of the program to operate from just a few steps from the car. More effort should be taken but it is difficult to be specific. Take an extreme example: a summit occupied by a car park with no public access to the Activation Zone outside the car park. In this case the best solution is to operate from within the car park but as far from your own car as possible. My personal interpretation of the spirit of SOTA would suggest that this example summit could not be activated at all, but I would also consider it as a summit available to a disabled person.

Consider the spirit of SOTA as the overriding consideration whenever a question of this type crops up.

73

Brian GR8ADD

Perhaps, how an assosiation select the summits participating in SOTA can help the situation a bit… I mean the number-percentage and proximity of summits which are accessible by car…

73, Panos

In reply to SV1COX:

It is a good idea to have a proportion of easy and accessible summits in any Association. This means that elderly, unfit and disabled hams can also take part in SOTA.

73

Brian GR8ADD

In reply to OK1TGI:

The same issue exists where a cable car, ski lift or train is available to the summit. The activator should carry on in the spirit of SOTA, something which may be different for you than for another activator. If you cheat the only person you cheat is yourself. We all should consider that another activator may not be capable of the sort of climb or the length of walk that we personally find easy. However we must keep to the rules and a few steps from the car is not quite out of the vicinity of a motor vehicle. I can think of quite a few summits where it is actually quite hard to reasonably activate by walking 150 meters elevation, due to the size of the summit plateau. You would not consider it reasonable to force a 20 mile each way march up & down a busy dual carriageway to activate a one point summit when the road passes within 20 feet of the summit peak, I am sure. However if you park next to the summit and operate six feet from the car that is not in the spirit, a compromise must be drawn. In this case I would park as far from the summit trig as the lay-by lets me and walk to as near the trig as I can and set up there. That way I do not endanger myself on the busy road by trying to make a walk out of it.

In my personal view I would happily ride a cable car, ski lift or train to a summit and walk a reasonable distance from the station to set up, but I would walk down or walk up and ride down, not both. Again it is up to the activator to know his/her abilities and judge if for them it is cheating. I have in the past used my 4x4 to get just outside the activation zone on a summit and then walked to the true summit, but I have had disabled passengers and children with me who could not have made the climb in a reasonable time. We must above all be reasonable in what after all is a hobby and a bit of fun and not treat it like a matter of life and death.

Regards Steve GW7AAV

In reply to GW7AAV:

In my personal view I would happily ride a cable car, ski lift or
train to a summit and walk a reasonable distance from the station to
set up, but I would walk down or walk up and ride down, not both.

Yes there are some summits with that possibility, but it is probably impossible to get a SOTA award just by activating them. Usually there is also a ski piste or some other way to walk up to the same summit. In winter I use touring skis to climb up and ski down, so that is in the spirit of the program anyway. I do that even if there is a ski lift available, though some times the ski lift may help to gain higher start altitude and save time in ascent.

73, Jaakko OH7BF/F5VGL

In reply to G8ADD:

I used to wonder why the rules don’t require you to cross the Activation Zone boundary under your own power so you have to travel a minimum of 25m vertical height unassisted (disabled persons excepted). Then I discovered summits like SE-013… :slight_smile:

My personal interpretation of the spirit of SOTA would suggest that this example summit could not be activated at all, but I would also consider it as a summit available to a disabled person.

You cannot have it both ways Brian! Either a summit is viable or it isn’t.

Consider the spirit of SOTA as the overriding consideration whenever a question of this type crops up.

Precisely!

73, Gerald G4OIG

In reply to G4OIG:

In reply to G8ADD:

My personal interpretation of the spirit of SOTA would suggest
that this example summit could not be activated at all, but I would
also consider it as a summit available to a disabled person.

You cannot have it both ways Brian! Either a summit is viable or it
isn’t.

Oh, I can, Gerald! When I said personal, I meant that although the rules do not exclude the summit, I would not activate it myself. There is nothing to stop us from limiting our activations by personal choices. I would not choose to activate a summit where the only choice is to activate from amongst parked cars, and I would hesitate to activate from the terrace of a gondola terminus, for instance, if there was any chance of moving onto natural mountain rock. These are, however, hypothetical cases. The nearest real equivalent is Ruardean Hill, G/WB-021, where we have parked the car on the top of the hill in the village and I carried the rig a couple of hundred metres downhill to operate from a roadside copse and still felt uncomfortable about it!

73

Brian GR8ADD

In reply to G4OIG:

Then I discovered summits like SE-013… :slight_smile:

Aye, that’s a rather flat hilltop, but the more pleasant locations around it are well away from the car park. Main problems from an activation point of view are that you need to get over the brow of the hill and down a bit before the noise from the main road becomes bearable, and that the obvious activation site, the trig point, tends to get a lot of pedestrian visitors…

In reply to M0LEP:

Yes Rick, rather a large AZ on SE-013. I activated it sitting at one of the picnic benches during an evening with VHF NFD in full swing and shared the summit with a contest station set up on the showground to the north side of the hill. I ran 70cms SSB and made a relatively easy 10 contacts, given that I’d already bagged 10 from SE-015 in the afternoon, so limiting my options. As it turned out, running S & P I acted as spotter for the contest station and he picked up quite a few contacts that way!

73, Gerald G4OIG

Yes I agree, we must to behave according ourselves feeling.
But if some activators can use them car for a ride between three summits in one a half a day (first summits is on main way, second is on top car park etc.) …
And it isn’t sure how he does final accesses and one of them is ten points summit, another is six-point. Yes it’s really possible.

Briefly, in my opinion, every activator who does final access, must have little sweating face and quickened breath at least. Do you agree ?

I have to say that I’m very surprised that there are also summits from which I have to go down when you want to make OSO because on the top is highway. :o :wink:
It’s little bit strange, isn’t it ?

Somebody mentioned unfit and disabled hams. Yes agree, we have to have extra allowances for them. But what about hams who don’t have a car ?

(Sorry, my English is very poor. So far I can not understand the Shakespear in original. but I hope that you understand what I want say, hi)

73 Igor OK1TGI

In reply to OK1TGI:

Reading these posts with interest and wondered what your views are on Snowdon and the train?

I walked up and back last year on the Pyg trail but didn’t activate (I actually forgot all about SOTA, can’t even explain it!); are some people suggesting that you can get the train one way/both ways within the Rules?

Doesn’t seem right to me, what’s the general view?

James

In reply to MW0ZAP:

Bear in mind that the summit station is just outside the AZ so if you felt so inclined (and had a bulging wallet!) then you could take the train up and walk into the AZ. I wouldn’t do it myself, I’d much rather walk the Horseshoe, but it is not outside the rules and is a useful summit for the aged or disabled amongst us.

73

Brian GR8ADD

In reply to G8ADD:

From rule 3.7.3: Operations must not be in, or in the vicinity of a
motor vehicle. Rule 3.7.14: All SOTA operations are expected to be
conducted in the spirit of the program.

The definition of ‘vicinity’ has been discussed elsewhere and with no result other than hot air. My philosophy is that the spirit of the programme requires a penance to be paid after a very short walk from a vehicle (eg Bishop Wilton Wold, G/TW-004) by an activation requiring an arduous approach for only a few points (eg Caer Caradoc, G/WB-006).

73s de Dave, G®6DTN

In reply to M0DFA:

The definition of ‘vicinity’ has been discussed elsewhere and with no
result other than hot air. My philosophy is that the spirit of the
programme requires a penance to be paid after a very short walk from a
vehicle (eg Bishop Wilton Wold, G/TW-004) by an activation requiring
an arduous approach for only a few points (eg Caer Caradoc, G/WB-006).

73s de Dave, G®6DTN

Hair shirts printed with the SOTA logo will be available to order! :wink:

As I see it, in general we have summits of all degrees of difficulty for activators of all degrees of ability, making a well-rounded program. If we so wish we can stack the odds up against ourselves by choosing the harder routes, or we can cherry pick the easier routes, the choice is ours so long as we abide by the rules.

73

Brian GR8ADD

In reply to M0DFA:

an arduous approach for only a few points (eg Caer Caradoc, G/WB-006).

Stay well clear of Scotland if you find Caer Caradoc arduous for the points!

73

Richard
G3CWI

In reply to G3CWI:

Stay well clear of Scotland if you find Caer Caradoc arduous for the
points!

Point, singular Richard… and a right sweaty ascent on a hot day, but what views to the north! Perhaps a little more arduous might be Moel y Dyniewyd GW/NW-056, but there you’ve got the tin mine workings to take your mind off the fact you are only getting a single point for the effort expended.

As for Scotland, there’s always Cairnpapple Hill GM/SS-254 just north of Bathgate if you want to be lazy - last activated in 1974 when a wildcat walked straight by my car! Seems it might be a little more “urbane” nowadays.

73, Gerald G4OIG

In reply to G3CWI:

Stay well clear of Scotland if you find Caer Caradoc arduous for the
points!

For totally unfit beggars like me, the walk from the car-park to G/SC-007 or even G/SE-009 is enough - especially for only one point

IMHO the key criterion is being truely portable (as opposed to mobile) - so in cases of reductio ad absurdum, as long as you are set-up seperate from the vehicle (ie not using the hatchback as the operating position) and not connected to it (either for power or antenna) then that’d be good enough.

But so far every activation I’ve done has been from the trig-point, and none of the trigs have been in the car-park, so it has never been an issue for me.

Andrew
M®6ADB

In reply to G4OIG:
Perhaps a little more arduous might be

Moel y Dyniewyd GW/NW-056, but there you’ve got the tin mine workings
to take your mind off the fact you are only getting a single point for
the effort expended.

Tin, is it Gerald? I thought it was copper as there is malachite in the gossan. I’ll have to go back one day and activate it, and I can then look more closely at the workings. I found it a lovely walk.

The thing about Scotland is not the difficulty of the hills, although some of them require plenty of handwork, but the distances that have to be walked. 10 miles is an easy day, many well-known summits (such as Ladhar Bheinn WS-046) are double that and there are longer days to be had…then there are the midges…

73

Brian G8ADD

If parking the car well away from the summit isn’t practical, I’d go for a little hike around the summit area, walk down the hill and back and then find a nice spot for setting up the station. I think that would be in the spirit of SOTA even if you end up working quite near to the car.

Last autumn, when we activated Kiiskilänmäki, OH/JS-016, we first parked the car in the side of the main road, and dragged our gear up to the hill. But for safety reasons, we decided to walk back down and also drove the car up to the summit for the night. The next day we drove the car down, walked back up and then down again with the gear.

Sometimes it may be necessary to make compromises, but by using common sense I think it’s possible without breaking the spirit of SOTA. And if you’re a bit unhappy about the sircumstances of some activation, compensate it by making the next activation clearly a longer hike or a bike trip all the way. :slight_smile:

73,
Jaakko, OH6FQI