Agreed, Ed. I have stopped QSLing SOTA contacts via LOTW or eQSL because of the impracticability of creating dozens of subsidiary accounts for all the different /P locations activated. It is completely unnecessary anyway, as QSLs are not required to claim SOTA credits.
Also, there are a few European chasers who have sent me a paper QSL card for every single SOTA contact they have made with me … sometimes 20 or more paper cards. It’s crazy!
73,
Walt (G3NYY)
OK…My 2 cents worth…
This Grid Square Stuff is pretty important to VHF ops…at least it is here in the States.
I know that LOTW has nothing to do with SOTA, but making my SOTA log and SOTA QSL information correct motivated me to do so from day one of my SOTA career. I was proud to be out operating from so many different summits in different Grid Squares and different counties (OK…and from different states).
As an old VHF weak signal operator I have had to log all of my Amateur Radio VHF QSO’s since 1984 showing the proper Grid Square into LOTW. My QSO’s also show the proper county I was in at the time for the County Hunters. As a result all of my 54,000 QSO’s since 1965 all show the correct information in the LOTW and SOTA databases.
If you use LOTW it is not difficult to create a list of all of your SOTA Locations in LOTW. The SOTA database for each summit shows the Grid Square for every summit. I did have to create a few locations where the same Grid Square covers more than one county, so I have lots of locations in LOTW.
Anyhow, I figured that if I was going to do this Ham Radio, SOTA, LOTW, and QSL stuff properly I needed to get the contact information correct, if not for me, then for the others who worked me. Getting the contact information right might just be a big deal for some of them.
73,
Pete
WA7JTM
DM33xo
Maricopa County
Arizona
I have better things to do with my time … like going out and activating more summits!
You are creating a nightmare for yourself, Pete.
73,
Walt (G3NYY)
Hi Walt,
I created the nightmare a long time ago when I decided to hand enter those 50,000+ contacts in my paper logs into LOTW.
Now it is easy peasy…and it takes me zero time to submit any log from anywhere correctly…and I like the fact that my info will be in LOTW long after I am gone (maybe…u never know).
For someone just starting out it is a simple thing to do… to get it right from the start.
73
Pete
I agree with Pete about the LOTW problem. I look up the grid and counties and put them in my log, then when the confirmations come thru LOTW, they are usually shown as the operator’s home QTH.
This also happens a lot on the state QSO parties, a mobile will be
out giving QSOs in, for instance, Florida. When the confirmations
come in, they all show his home QTH. I also have noticed with SOTA contacts, a lot of the summits are on a county line, or you can’t exactly tell what county they are in, depending on what side of the hill the station is on. It’s all good, though.
73
John, K6YK
Fully agree, totally crazy. A waste of time and energy.
I only eQSL in these days and I consider even that quite a waste of time and energy.
But I don’t have anymore a different account for each SOTA activation with its corresponding Locator. My eQSL account for SOTA activations has my home QTH locator and the eQSL picture doesn’t mention it but includes a text referring to the database and sotawatch to find out summit ref. and activation details.
BTW, I think I should update the URLs to the new ones…
73,
Guru
Done!
I totally agree, Guru.
My hobby is making contacts on the radio … not creating complex filing systems for QSLs!
73,
Walt (G3NYY)
Just for clarification can someone tell me what a list is please ?(I’m asking as an activator)
(referred to in two or three earlier responses to the OP regarding handling pile ups etc.,)
When you have a pileup, you write down a list of all the calls you can copy then you work them.
I don’t know many activators here in NA who do it this way. I will often do a short mental list when I hear chasers that I know very well.
Most people here work one station at a time, so each time they call QRZ the chasers will call and the activator will pick a station they can copy.
John operating as GX0OOO often makes a list. IIRC after a CQ or QRZ he will say “I heard G8xxx, M0xxx and GM3xxx, are there any more?” and after a few repeats he says “I have heard the following stations, I will work them in this order” and reads out the list. After working through the list he repeats the process until he has worked all callers.
Ahhh! Tks for the clarification
David.
Hi Jeff,
The use of the ARRL’s LotW logging system is not a requirement of the SOTA award scheme. That is my point. Some operators may chose to use it in addition to the SOTA database. Others may chose to use one of the logging systems that were around long before LotW came on the scene. I understand the ARRL sometimes require the use of LotW to apply for their awards or to enter their contests.
None of that is a SOTA requirement however. If you need a logged contact with a particular state or DXCC entity and you have worked a SOTA activator there, then email him or her and ask if they use LotW and would be kind enough to log that contact into that ARRL system - most will obligue if they already have access to the system or can be bothered to jump through the required hoops to get access.
I have an account on LotW but never use it. If someone asked me however to enter a particular SOTA contact in there, so that they could claim an ARRL award, I would do so, in order to be helpful. However as noted above the requirement to set up a new location for every SOTA summit activated, will put a block in the way for many people.
A logging requirement does not belong in a code of conduct.
73 Ed.
I enjoyed working Roy and it was always a pleasure to make contact but gosh I hated the off frequency technique! 9 times out of 10, I’d be using my MTR with audio specially tailored for CW, calling just a shade out of sync resulted in a raspy or no tone being received. I understand the theory, but personally I prefer clever timing rather than frequency shifting for getting through a pile up.
73, HNY
Colin
Never a problem with a full fat radio.
Blockquote
I think it is. If I have confirmed contacts with 49 states and only need State X for WAS, then a SOTA Activator from State X is on vacation in State Y and activates a summit in State Y. I make a contact with him/her in State Y but they use there home location when uploading to LOTW. Now I can apply for WAS while only working 49 States. Is this acceptable practice to the SOTA community? The MT should put out a statement to all SOTA Activators to use the location parameters for the Summit location activated, not their home location, if they are going to upload to LOTW. I have many erroneous LOTW confirmations all from SOTA Activators. We need to do better. Amateur Radio deserves better.
Jeff K6QCB
Although, for WAS (IIRC), if you are within a radius of 50 miles of your home QTH, it is considered your home QTH. So, if you’re working a peak within that radius, it should be ok to upload to LOTW as your home QTH.
Yes, but ARRL LoTW (I am a regular uploader with over 20 logbooks) relates to DXCC, WAS, WPX, CQ Awards and has nothing to do with SOTA or IOTA or COTA or whatever OTA we enjoy. So as long as I ensure the correct DXCC Country is identified and the call is marked /P then I am covered in LOTW hihi…
73 Phil G4OBK/P, OK8CDX/P, VK2/G4OBK/P, DL/G4OBK/P etc
ED
I had written a long response to your and other posts but before posting it I decided it was best not to. I will say this though. You are the only one who used the word requirement. We should do it right or not at all. We can help those who want to do it right but don’t know they are doing it wrong by information. Those that don’t care and can’t be bothered because it is inconvenient can’t be help. We will have to deal with the problems they cause. All that I am asking is to get the word out to as many as possible where the biggest problem exists, here. Maybe a post explaining how LOTW works pinned to the top the the reflector for an extended period of time will help. Whether it is in the purview of SOTA or not it is in the purview of Amateur Radio without which there would be no SOTA. I don’t know what else I can do, but I’ve tried because I care about Amateur Radio.
Jeff K6QCB
I have bit different take on callers and some have pointed it out already. If everyone only called once, at the same time, I wouldn’t be able to pull out a full call. As an activator, I figure I’m in charge, so I take charge. I call the first chaser whose full call I can copy, and work them, whether its the first or second time they call. If there is QRM I call that station until I complete the QSO, without exception. The pile-up usually catches on to what is going on and fall into line. The only time I can’t work a station with a full call is when everyone calls just once, at the same time and I can only catch a single letter. Often, when that happens, it’s the second call that gets in the log. There is a professional way, if you will, to call the second time and it be entirely appropriate in my opinion. A well timed second call, i.e., the pile has called and the operator hasn’t answered, is not continuous calling in my opinion, it’s good operating and actually speeds along the pile-up. If there isn’t a second call I’m forced to send a ? and then everyone repeats the same behavior, they call once and I don’t get a call which necessitates another ? and so on. It happens on every activation.
The other piece of this, and it’s the responsibility of the activator, is to be able to immediately go back to the first full call you hear. If you take a bit of time to decode the call, log it first, etc… the pileup thinks you haven’t heard anyone and so they call again. I try to answer the calling station as soon as their finger is off the key. I can finish logging them when they send me their report.
There are a couple of things that are bothersome to me, the first is when someone calls who really can’t hear me and calls randomly, often on top of a station I’m working and the second thing is those calling who really can’t copy CW and I mean, not even their own call. I have noticed lately that two stations are working me at the same time when I only called one. So someone doesn’t even recognize their call when it’s sent. This is happening more and more frequently.
All this said SOTA pile-ups are relatively well behaved in my opinion.
HNY to the SOTA Community and may there be many more pile-ups to manage:-)
73,
Mike AD5A
Hi Jeff, I’m not a member of the MT and can’t speak for SOTA (or even LOTW). However I do write and audit policies and procedures for a living. My advice would be to avoid duplication of such procedures across multiple (unconnected) sites. LOTW own and are responsible for their own procedures and should be regarded as the definitive source of advice. Any other organisations should simply refer their users to LOTW for advice on how to use LOTW (if they wish). That way we avoid potentially conflicting advice, when procedures are updated.
Best wishes,