In reply to G8ADD:
Gentlemen, it makes me smile how folk get all upset by something such as an approximate time…or indeed having the afront to answer and/or put your views across in a thread such as this only to have it all cut off in its prime.
If folk need to get things off their chests then surely this is the place to do it???
There have been a few comments during the past month on this forum which I have found to be argumentative or damn right insulting to various members but I have kept out of it all.
I still think I’ll do just that.
Good night.
In reply to G8ADD:
Oh and ps…
Please don’t think that the value of alerts is just for chasers.
Think of the activators too.
I might feel incredibly annoyed if I have travelled from my qth to the base of Snowden, walked and climbed to its top in blizzard conditions only to find a station just set up and calling cq.
Alerts help me in planning future activations and in that respect they remain very usefull indeed.
Night night.
The thread isn’t cut off in its prime, it may continue as participants see fit, but as moderator I have to try and stop threads from going off the rails, as they will all too quickly if exchanges of personalities are allowed to continue unchecked. As it says below the “Post Reply” button, “…messages that may be offensive to some members of the group may be deleted” and I see it as my job to choke off friction before it reaches the point where posts get deleted, threads get locked or deleted, and warnings or exclusions are handed out. I’m sure that we have all seen some of those forum sites where combative types duel with nukes at ten paces. Rest assured this reflector will never get like that.
So speaks the experienced SOTA activator with six activations
under
his belt this year.
Well if you had to travel 150 km to reach any summit you might only
manage a few summits a year.
Quite so, and if you were caring for an XYL with dementia and unable to operate for more than a few minutes at a time you might not have many chaser points either…
If folk need to get things off their chests then surely this is the
place to do it???
Possibly; however, those of us that recall what happened a few years ago here might prefer inflamatory discussions to take place elsewhere where they have limited chance to damage the good reputation of SOTA. Fortunately the main protagonists are no longer here. A good place might be the Summitsbase forums which are hardly used and in which people can make as much noise as they like!
Brian seems to have got the moderation here just right at the moment and it’s normally a nice constructive atmosphere.
Brian seems to have got the moderation here just right at the moment
and it’s normally a nice constructive atmosphere.
That’s right, Rich.
And therefore it does rankle somewhat when I am insolently impugned for simply venturing to express a point of view in what, I believe, was a polite and civilized manner.
Others entered the debate constructively and expressed alternative opinions without the need to stoop to ad hominem attacks.
People do sometimes post things that are more sharply worded than they may have intended, or than they would have posted with a little more thought, and I try and stop things from blowing up into an unfortunate incident - but without assigning blame.
These thing are best forgotten.
As far as I am concerned you were within your rights to post your opinion and others were within their rights to post agreements or rebuttals in a civilised manner. Since the matter clearly still rankles with you after a cooling off period I have used the moderating facilities and discretion to delete the phrase that you objected to, and perhaps you might consider deleting part of your response as well, then the debate may be resumed in the spirit of friendship.
I rarely post alerts, and the main reason is the requirement to specify a time. I know it can be qualified in the comments, but I still have to say something. If you give a time which is too early, there’s that feeling that people may be hanging around waiting, but if you overcompensate, there’s the risk that you’ll be grumbled at for being early, and in extremis, finishing the activation before it was supposed to start.
I think the problem would be straightforwardly handled if the alert form asked for a time range. Those who were good at estimating could give a narrow range; people like me would give a much wider time range but at least there would be something potentially useful.
I have a similar quandry about bands and modes. Caroline and I are equipped for more bands than we are ever likely to do on a single activation. The ones actually used depend on weather, time available, terrain, number of contacts obtained, and to some degree, whim. What should I alert? If I put down everything possible, somebody will be disappointed. If I put down only the definite ones, people may think it not worth looking for us on others. There’s a limit to how much qualification you can put in the comment field. That’s why it often feels safer to say nothing, then it can’t be wrong.
Good points Martyn. In answer to them, I would simply suggest that you can be general/approximate/vague in your alerts, and give the definitive information via a self-spot once on a summit and having taken account of all the issues you describe.
That’s what Jimmy and I do, and I don’t think anyone gets upset.
Returning to the original point, despite over 1000 activations and over 250 uniques to my name, I am still capable of being anywhere from 2 hours early to 2 hours late on more major expeditions, and especially where they are new to me. I come into the shack to do a bit of chasing when it is convenient for me to do so, rather than as a result of what is posted on the alerts. The spots are my alerts!
And yes, I agree with Richard. Brian does a fine job in keeping this reflector cordial, and has to make some tricky judgements from time to time. Let’s support him and appreciate his considerable effort. It cannot be denied that this forum has been a pleasant and friendly place for some considerable time now, and that’s just how it should be.
In reply to M1MAJ:
I like the idea of a time range in alerts; say “earliest QRV” and “latest QRT”. An expected activation duration might also have use?
Modes and bands can be very useful, but exact frequencies are more chancey, especially if the bands are busy. Perhaps, rather than asking for frequencies, alerts could give bands, with an implicit assumption that the first-specified were more likely than the last-specified?
I tend to try and make sure that I am on time for the first summit of the day! However this can go wrong, I think in my 100 activations I have been late for about 5% of them! However if you’re doing multiple summits in a day it is so hard to be precise with the 2nd, 3rd or next summit!
Easiest thing I tend to do is say on the alert that the time is approximate or alternatively ±30mins! In addition I dont have a fnacy smart phone, instead I have a bomb proof cheap Nokia, it makes calls and sends texts (All I want really).
However I have simply signed up to Andy’s Mobile service and send a spot stating if I think I will be late or early for the activation, Simple really. I suppose the other method for chasers is APRS. However it has taken me 11 years to get on PSK and other rig interfaces etc, so I wont be rushing to get on APRS any time soon.
Also I agree with John G1STQ - if this is an ever so slightly offensive post then I would like to see some of the other postings moderated. Sarcasm on here is vile, used far to much and as they say it is the lowest form of wit.
I find Alerts to be invaluable. They are the essential SOTA tip-off tool that allows chasers to asses, predict and plan ahead.
I can only comment on HF CW spots, because that is where my interest lies. Used effectively, spots are a most valuable aid that allows chasers to be in the right place at the right time. For example; they tell me that Jaakko will start on 14062 KHz around 0900, that Slavko will call on 10118 KHz around 0930, that Andre will commence on 10122 KHz, Daniel will use 7028 KHz and Heinz advises that he will start on SSB then move to CW on 18086 KHz. I have two receivers and can therefore monitor the predicted frequencies to best advantage.
Alerts will allow most activators to be spotted within 60 seconds of the first call. For someone like Jaakko when operating North of the Arctic Circle with only a couple of hours daylight, this will save him from calling CQ SOTA with failing batteries and no replies.
Yes, of course they may be early or late; of course they may even cancel for one reason or another, but in my experience I find that more than 90% of activity occurs within 30 minutes of the scheduled time.
Treat the Alerts as they were intended by the originator - a simple “heads up” of their intentions, nothing more. I, for one, are extremely grateful to all activators who take the time to advise chasers of their plans in advance.
“Your memory is failing you; you posted an alert yesterday for The Roaches.”
You`ve got me there Richard, guilty as charged (although it was my first “test” of a new system). I would also alert for sota trips such as a week in DL, GM etc as a “heads up” but generally speaking I no longer bother.
It all makes me wonder how we ever managed before the alerts / spots system was developed - remember in the old days when people used to actually trawl the bands looking for contacts.
I also remember when Ken & Christine (GM0AXY,GM4YMM) activated a summit in DM/BW - Hohentwiel I think. Ken sent a text to say he was active, & the text took 3 or 4 days to arrive !
I seldom bother to alert. I must say I was surprised to see that some people might call the Mountain Rescue on the strength of a missed alert. I have never really felt obliged to show up on time (or even at all) for an alert and I would not rely on SOTAwatch as a safety facility.
SOTA had an alerting and self spot system from the earliest days. However it relied on a number of unreliable systems working properly - which didn’t always (often?) happen. It is easy to forget how technology has advanced in ten years.
A good place might be the Summitsbase forums which are hardly used and in which people can make as much noise as they like!
Wrong! … and you well know it Richard. Please do not have a sideways swipe at Summitsbase. It exists alongside SOTA and provides valuable and interesting information for all who are interested in activating from the hills and mountains that are both within and outside of the SOTA scheme.
It’s a good job some people actually listen on the bands to provide those spots!
Thanks to the extremely dedicated group of chasers on 2m SSB, I rarely call CQ to start an activation - it is only necessary if I am running considerably ahead of my alerted time. Often a test whistle into the mic is sufficient to set up the first QSO.
It’s a good job some people actually listen on the bands to provide those
spots!
Self spotting Gerald… it’s the future!
Often a test whistle
Snap. I have to go and whistle on a different frequency than I’ll operate on if I need to do any testing of an antenna setup on a summit or there’s all sorts of calls coming back at me.
It’s really rather wonderful to have keen followers.
As for alerts, well I use them to let people know I’ll be out and about. I do try hard to hit the first time range I give. If I’m doing two summits the timing for the second one is rough. I put something in the comment saying it depends on the time for the 1st summit. Respect to you and Paul for being consistent on hitting times for your second and subsequent summits.
It’s a good job some people actually listen on the bands to provide
those spots!
Thanks to the extremely dedicated group of chasers on 2m SSB, I rarely
call CQ to start an activation - it is only necessary if I am running
considerably ahead of my alerted time. Often a test whistle into the
mic is sufficient to set up the first QSO.
Make you 100% right there Gerald! Brilliant bunch of chasers, couldn’t ask for better… I do alert, but don’t always self-spot as there’s nearly always someone monitoring the calling channel and they normally spot me immediately.
If I don’t have a contact within the first 30 seconds on 2m FM, I check to see if the antenna is connected.
There’s plenty of chasers who come back and ask if I would like re-spotting, as I’ve dropped to the bottom of the list
Wrong! … and you well know it Richard. Please do not have a
sideways swipe at Summitsbase. It exists alongside SOTA and provides
valuable and interesting information for all who are interested in
activating from the hills and mountains that are both within and
outside of the SOTA scheme.
I have to say in support that I regard Summitsbase as an invaluable resource and do not find the posts on their forum all that undisciplined. I only wish we could do as good a presentation job with our monthly news, unlike Summitsbase we are not equipped to include pictures or diagrams! Perhaps one day…
If you check it out you will see that over the years Summitsbase has been in operation there are less than 100 posts in total (discounting the “thanks for the news” thread). In the SOTA section there are no posts at all - primarily, I assume because the admins didn’t like to have their past posts on show! Gerry very notably stopped posting his reports there because no-one was reading them. I would have thought they would have welcomed some traffic?
I have not suggested that they are lacking in adequate censorship but merely that they provide a useful parallel forum where contentious issues can be discussed without the inevitable arguments detracting from SOTA.
One should also not forget why it was set up. The reasons were certainly not constructive as the initiator demonstrated by removing all his summit details from SOTAwatch. Fortunately in his rush, he chose the wrong platform to make his ideas work - maintaining it must be a nightmare. It looks like one positive thing to come out of it might be a HUMPS award which will be a great service to the SOTA community in several ways. I am certainly looking forward to activating some as and when it starts.
Although I find their news a little turgid at times, I must agree that the ability to add photos is a big plus.
