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Activator Points

I realise how the points system is determined for the various SOTA summits but in some cases it seems very unfair, particularly from an activators point of view.

Take GW/NW-001 Snowdon - Yr Wyddfa 1085m 10 points 153 activations. You can take the Train to this one, alight and walk a few metres, activate it and 10 points are in the bag for any chasers.

Many more SOTA Hills are accessible by motorised transport to within a very short distance of their summits including lots in the Northern Pennines where I live.

I also realise that there are purists amongst SOTA activators, who only climb SOTA hills via regular walking routes of course, and something like Snowdon would then be worth all the 10 points.

Now take GM/SI-002 Sgurr Dearg - Inaccessible Pinnacle 986m 6 points 1 activation (a serious Mountaineering trip and GM/SI-011 Cir Mhor 799m 4 points 0 Activations, (Not a particularly high hill, but still a difficult mountain to activate as it has not been done yet.)Just two of many that I have personally climbed but well before SOTA was instigated.

Maybe some Hills that have never been activated more than a certain number of times or are difficult mountaineering adventures should have extra points added to them and categorised as “Elite Summits” or something like that. They could revert back to their original status, say if they have been activated 10 times. That may encourage Activators to attempt more of these and make SOTA more exciting.

Just some observations, that’s all.

Barrie g1jyb

In reply to G1JYB:

The difficulty of coming up with a “fair” system of scoring, along with the problem of devising a single world-wide uniform scoring system, has exercised peoples minds since the concept of SOTA was first devised…and to no avail.

The current thinking is that the “easy” summits with mechanical or nearby road approach should be retained in the interests of making SOTA accessible to less able activators. There is in fact a website listing summits that can be activated by people with limited physical capability - and this could do with being extended to cover more Associations. Overall, the exceptionally easy summits probably balance the exceptionally difficult summits in most Associations.

“Elite” summits are an interesting idea but personally I think that this is the converse of accessibility. Granting extra points to people because they can achieve a summit activation beyond the reach of the average amateur when by making these activations they can already achieve points that are beyond most people may be considered unfair.

One interesting possibility is giving a bonus to the first activation of a summit after an Association has been in being for a number of years, but this would involve a re-write of the software.

73

Brian G8ADD

In reply to G8ADD:

Thanks Brian for your input, I totally understand the difficulties, it is not easily to satisfy all of the members all of the time, just food for thought and it would be nice to have some incentives to do the more difficult and remote summits.

73s

Barrie g1jyb

In reply to G1JYB:

“just food for thought and it would be nice to have some incentives to do the more difficult and remote summits.”

Hi Barrie,

would not one of the incentives be: to overcome the challenge of the difficulty and remoteness of them?

" To Boldly go where no SOTA activator has gone before!!" persay?

Just my thoughts, as an activator that can only watch in awe of some of my fellow activators!!

73

Tony

Trends of activity in SOTA have clearly indicated that being the first listed activator is the most sought-after reward. This, and the pile-up you get if you do a “rare” one inspires activators to get to the more challenging summits. Another effective incentive is adding 1 to your own activator uniques tally. So as well as the points, there are already several further incentives to activate an unactivated, rare or remote summit. Oh, and there’s the kudos as well. The first person to activate a Scottish sea stack or a St Kildan summit might only get one point - but will be a hero in SOTA!

It is my impression that below 1000 points (MG), participants go after the points. But after that award, they target uniques, and in some cases special personal challenges and expeditions. This is when more remote and difficult summits get tackled, because they all count equally in uniques.

The only incentive I need to walk up a hill is its existence!

Tom M1EYP

In reply to G8ADD:

One interesting possibility is giving a bonus to the first activation
of a summit after an Association has been in being for a number of
years, but this would involve a re-write of the software.

Easy to dream up schemes for adding a bonus for early activations, but slightly trickier to know who should get what bonus when a team is activating a summit, so two or more folks claim the summit on the first day…

…and the code is a different arena.

In reply to M6LEP:

Um, I was the first activator of G/TW-005 (at that time called ‘The Wolds’). That one certainly didn’t require any acrobatics, just park in the road and walk a few hundred metres further and set up the station on the verge. But there again you won’t get me up any of these 10 pointers if it involves real walking!

73 Dave G3YMC

In reply to M1EYP:

You are correct in all you say Tom, but at the end of the day there are still many Summits that haven’t been activated, even with your ideas that you put forward, and of course each individual has their own reasons for doing them, I was merely trying to test the waters to get more of these activated that’s all.

Take the island of Arran for instance, there are probably 6 or 7 SOTA summits, I haven’t checked, but on my last look, I think only 2 had been activated, now Arran is a popular Tourist Island, I would have thought that more would have been done, and having climbed on Arran many times in the distant past, and although The Mountains are steep and rocky, I just wonder why not.

Personally I don’t think SOTA is about creating Heroes its more about enjoying it as either an activator or a Chaser.

Barrie g1jyb

In reply to 2E0LAE:

You have the right Idea Tony, thanks for your input, lets hope more activators take up the challenge and tick off some of these Summits.

73

Barrie g1jyb

In reply to G1JYB:

it would be nice to have some incentives to do the
more difficult and remote summits.

How about offering activators a free beer?

73

Richard
G3CWI

In reply to G3CWI:

In reply to G1JYB:

it would be nice to have some incentives to do the
more difficult and remote summits.

How about offering activators a free beer?

73

Richard
G3CWI

Now you’re talking…which way do I swim to reach St Kilda? :wink:

73

Brian G8ADD

Barrie,

Surely the issue is the concentration of activators vs the distribution of summits? In G & GW we have many activators and less than 400 summits - and every single one of them has been done. In GM, we have significantly less activators, but way more summits. Hence some haven’t been done - yet.

The Marilyn hillbaggers don’t have extra incentives to entice them onto certain hills, but there are completists - if you except the two sea stacks.

I don’t think bonus points will make the slightest bit of difference as to which Arran (for instance) summits get activated, and when. They will get done when people go and do them.

73, Tom M1EYP

In reply to M1EYP:

Absolutely right, Tom. They’ll get done when they get done.

And once they’ve been done, they’ve been done (though it’s nice to go back to a good summit).

No need for bonus points. It’s nice to know there are still a few that haven’t been done. I’d love a trip to Arran, haven’t been there for years - though no doubt by the time I do the summits will have been done. But so what? It’s the enjoyment of the hills and playing radio on them that matter.

73
John GM8OTI

I’m trying to think what made me drive 750miles, take the car on a ferry and stay in hotels for 5 nights and spend the thick end of £500.

It wasn’t the points.
It wasn’t the personal uniques.
It wasn’t being 1st activator for 3 of the 4 hills.

It was simply to go and play in the wonderful countryside up here.

I don’t need bonus points to go and do this, I just need more time off work and more money. :slight_smile:

Andy
MM0FMF

In reply to MM0FMF:

In short, the hills are their own reward.

73

Brian G8ADD