Hi Guru,
I can’t find the thread where you and I discussed this previously - but you expressed the view then that you prefer to activate at higher speeds [25+wpm I think] because you get through more contacts quickly. You also said you slow down for QRS chasers [which I know you do from my QSOs with you].
73 Andy
And whilst searching for that old dialogue we had on CW speed I found some good advice you gave on head copying …
The best way to learn is to listen!
Often you have a strong pile up on the sota or you don’t want to stay on the summit for too long. So the sota qsos are usually quite short and reduced to the essential.
The essential means here that the call of the chaser is confirmed and a rst is given. Usually you say goodbye with 73 - but that’s it.
I call - cq sota de dl6gca/p
You only answer - 2e0agb
I heard you, confirm your call and give you a rst - 2e0agb 559 559 bk (i prefer to send the real rst and no 5nn)
You have heard your call confirmed and rst and know that I listen to you and confirm for me - bk 2e0agb 539 539 73
I say goodbye - 73
This is the normal procedure if you are in a hurry as an activator (strong pile up, several summits planned a day, bad weather, moody wife,…) …otherwise you can take your time
73 Armin
Nope, it must have been somebody else, I think. Actually, I activate around 22-20 WPM because I know weak signals like the ones coming from a QRP station are better copied if QRS. I have even written some posts recommending US activators to go QRS because I like chasing North-American activators and I’ve experienced that when they go QRQ (25 WPM) and their signal is at about the noise floor level, it’s is just impossible for me to get the code they are sending. On the other hand, a 20 WPM morse is much easier to copy in those extremely weak signal conditions.
It will be interesting to find that thread to see what I wrote there. If you find it, let me know, please.
Thank you.
73,
Guru
Hi Allen,
This seems a bit too long for a standard SOTA chase.
I’d recommend you to shorten it to the following:
When the activator stops sending and listens for chasers, you send your call once or twice, depending on the pileup size and the signal strength you guess you’ll be putting on the activator receiver. Just your callsign without PSE K or any other sign.
Once the activator answered to you with a signal report, you come back with R R or QSL to let him know he got your callsign correct and you got his report correct. Then you can send GM/GA/GE (Good morning/afternoon/evening) followed by the activator’s name if you know it. Then UR 599 or whatever signal report you want to give him and 73 GL (Good luck) TU or BK (back to him)
He will say CFM or QSL or similar and 73 TU. Then you’ll have just finished you QSO.
That’s it.
I hope this helps you.
73,
Guru
Hi Guru, I found that discussion.
From memory I thought it was 25+wpm but in fact it was 22wpm - which probably seemed fast to me back then [Q4 '17] when I first started SOTA activations around 15wpm. Now 22wpm seems achievable to me.
Hi Armin and Guru. Thanks ever so much for your replies, I have taken what you say on board and yes looking at how I have been doing it ,now that you’ve both explained makes so much sense so a Big Thanks to both of you. Stay safe and all the very best 73
Allen
Thanks, Andy, for bringing that post back here. Well, it confirms quite well what I just wrote above in this thread. At the present time my FT-817 keyer speed is set to 20 WPM and it’s been like that for quite some time (i.e. several activations)
This morning I activated with my MTR-2B and I think I went at about 22 WPM. I know it’s possible to change the speed, but I’ve never done it yet on this MTR and I don’t know how to do it. I know it’s explained in the manual but I haven’t got a chance or the mood to look at it yet.
73,
Guru
Hi Eric! There are both sides. I’m honest with you, I love QRQ (40wpm in contests and 30wmp in SOTA) and when I reply to someone who transmits slower I often forget to slow down. Why? because for me the CW is like talking, I can’t think in dahs and dits, for me it is something musical and rhythmic. For example, if I go to France with very basic French, you will not speak to me slower but you will use easier terms.
Unfortunately the CW in most cases is poorly (or baddly) taught. I have read that many start at very slow speeds and this is counterproductive as it limits you to operate at a maximum of 15wpm in the future. The CW should not be learned as something mathematical but should be learned as a new language.
I think these are some reasons why many do not slow down. I understand that we have to slow down to people who answer us more slowly. But instead of a problem of values I think it is a mismatch of customs.
73 Takeo
Hi Takeo San @JP3PPL
Thanks for your reply and I understand your point of view.
But I was mostly talking about SOTA, and for those who one day decide to switch to The CW. Due to the behavior of some hunters it can disgust them …
Just a reminder !
For my part I have no problem, I can at the same time do a CW QSO and answer my wife who came to ask me a question about a cooking recipe. 
73 Éric
Got it! Sadly these are the display operators (decoders) and many of them know absolutely nothing about CW tips.
I am not at all against the new CW ops helping themselves with decoders, but if they do not know the basics, it is preferable that they do not operate.
Hi Eric
Catching up with CW is a project for me for the time after retirement at the latest. From time to time I listen to the CW SOTA frequencies to “suck in the music”.
I am pretty sure that I will cope quickly with a reasonable pace, since I will base on those 4 CW QSOs done 33 years ago, hi, so I won’t have a starting point at 0.0%. But there is that a bit difficult period in between where I must build up my ability, and I certainly will be happy with those partners who know where/how they can reduce the CW speed on their device and who certainly know what “QRS” means. But this is something in the future, the rat race wheel at my QRL turns too fast at present.
So looking forward to meet the pros like you somewhen for SOTA! 
Vy 73 de Markus, HB9DIZ
Hi,
I will try to say a few things as I see them with regard to cw.
First of all I admire the activators, their cw, sending as well as copy/understanding is very, very good, outstanding in fact, generally I would say magna cum laude.
I chase the activators with qrp and a simple antenna, well the use of qrp limits the maximum cw speed one can use, I would say somewhere between 20 and 24 wpm, I use 24 wpm.
Head copy is something that comes automatically, starting with things that you hear on a everyday base, like 5NN, RST, name QTH etc.
My experience is that your capability to copy and send drops as soon as you leave the standard qso and enter free text/ragchew.
Good advice is to record from time to time your own cw sending and check the quality of your sending.
A recording device can also be useful to record your qsos, so if there are parts you did not copy 100% sure, you can hear them again.
One of the things that annoy me the most, and thats outside of SOTA is an operator who calls cq and after sending pse k is listening only for a second or 2 before starting again calling cq. At 24 wpm I can barely squeeze in the prefix of my call in the time he is not sending. This one can hear on a single day dozens of times without effort.
And last but not least a lot of operators outside SOTA are allergic against any remarks with respect to their operating techniques.
You’ve obviously not worked me while I’ve been activating sheltering from the horizontal driving rain! 
I do generally agree with your comment Patrick. Unfortunately my experience has been the poor standards exhibited by chasers who latch on to the fact that the SOTA summit area also applies to the scheme they are interested in. How many times recently have I heard appeals for these ops to listen!
I’ve heard that professional CW radio operators have this ability [or had? - do they exist anymore?]. Meanwhile, the rest of us mere morals will admire that but also be jealous.
Hi Gerald G4OIG,
Chasing SOTA with QRP is not easy, especially when there is a pile up. The difficulty is with qrp you cannot penetrate the QRO pile up, so I try to place my call sending when the calling qrm in the pile up is getting weaker, but in doing so there is a risk to disturb the activator qso that might already be in progress. But far more often it is exercising patience and waiting until the pile up is over and hoping the activator is not going qsy fast.
For me with qrp I get best results during the week (less chasers) compared to weekends.
Paradise situation would be if the activator is not only regularly asking any /P stations? But also asking any QRP chasers?
When activating I typically set my keyer to something between 12 and 15 wpm. Some folk come back to me at the same sort of speed. Others run faster. I’ll work the ones I can read enough of. On a really good day with a clear signal and very low noise (from weather or RF) I might read a callsign and a signal report up to around 30wpm, given repeats. The ones who run too fast I simply won’t catch, as they’ll get lost in the noise.
Some rigs make it easier to change keying speed than others. My main rigs make it easy, and I adjust where necessary, but I’m already at the slower end, so don’t have cause to adjust speed often.
When I first started learning morse back in 2010 I tried to start fast, and it really didn’t work for me. (Having an actual teacher and more appropriate teaching tools than Koch might have made a difference back then. Who knows. I am where I’m at.) For morse contacts with me, please keep the overs short and repeat the important words. If you launch into a long conversation you will loose me. For a SOTA activation the contact’s mostly about getting the essential informaton exchanged, and nothing more, so please keep it brief.
I did, early on, try using decoders, and they really didn’t help me at all.
I know at least one OM who was an intercept operator many decades ago who does that, taking CW copy and holding an un-related conversation at the same time…
Indeed Patrick. I spent a day with the HB-1A on the operating bench and by waiting and patience I managed to work 6 HB9 summits and 1 HB0 summit. Of course waiting can mean that the activator suddenly decides to go QRT and the chance for a contact evaporates. 
The ideal scenario of the activator asking for QRP does not often happen. Unfortunately I rarely remember to ask for QRP stations when activating as just trying to work through the pile up can call for concentration. Of course a request for QRP chasers would be made in the hope that those running QRO would not call. I think human nature might make this difficult for some.
73, Gerald
Most times, SOTA pile-ups aren’t all that long-lived, and near the end things often get easier. When a SOTA’s combined with a *FF or similar I generally give up that chase.
Must confess I’ve never specifically asked for QRP (or QRS) callers when activating. I just pick the ones I can read.
Éric F5JKK’s original post was not just about CW speed, but more generally poor operating. Put simply, being a LID 
SOTA is no different to any other on air operating, in fact just like any dxing where a pileup forms. How to operate and behave in these situations is covered in detail by ON4WW & ON4UN (sadly SK last week) in their excellent Ham Radio Ethics and Operating Procedures
Here is what it says about calling in a pileup
III.1.3. How to behave in a pileup?
•Never call the DX station if you cannot copy him well enough.
•Make sure your station is properly adjusted before calling.
•Do not tune your transmitter on the frequency where the DX station is transmitting.
•Is the antenna in the right direction?
•Have you heard the instructions of the DX station? If not, wait and listen for instructions first!
•Listen.
•Listen.
•Listen and get acquainted with the operating rhythm of the DX station.
•If you hear frustrated hams making comments on the DX station’s frequency: keep quiet and wait until the chaos has subsided.
Only if all these requirements are met, can you call the DX station!
And a whole section on how to run a pileup!
73 Gavin
GM0GAV