In reply to G3XQE:
Thanks Ken, I wasn’t sure if you had read something or this was something coming from your experience.
Andy
CT9/MM0FMF
In reply to G4ISJ:
Anyway I think we need to sort the pack out some way. Today was just
sheer bedlam on several activations. People calling continuously over
the top of each other, Folks asking for callsign and reference without
ever listening themselves.
The sad thing is, it just makes it longer for the activator to get
through the pile up and then they may run out of time before they
manage to get through everyone.
Well, today was sheer pandemonium on HF SSB. Even S2S calls which normally initiate an instant response, were drowned out in the scrum.
Ah well, maybe I’ll stick to VHF 
73 Mike
2E0YYY
In reply to 2E0FGQ:
A bit more drift but I need to mention it ! . . .
In order for a QSO to have taken place, the chaser must have heard the
activator’s callsign ~and~ the SOTA reference.
You’ve made a very good point Nicholas and whilst I have every sympathy with it, speaking as somone who logged over 170 qso’s today, asking chasers to repeat back the summit reference would have meant me being up on the summit until Pancake Tuesday. You have also to take into account the chasers who call in but don’t collect points, they’re not really interested in summit references.
Tricky one this.
73 Mike
2E0YYY
In reply to 2E0FGQ:
In order for a QSO to have taken place, the chaser must have heard the
activator’s callsign ~and~ the SOTA reference.
Really? Are you sure the SOTA reference needs to be exchanged?
Andy
CT9/MM0FMF
In reply to MM0FMF:
Rule 3.8.2
“The Chaser must make a QSO with the summit expedition in which at least callsigns and two-way reports are exchanged. Wherever possible the SOTA reference number should also be obtained as part of the QSO.”
This implies that the reference should normally be given but may be omitted in exceptional circumstances. What those might be is open to discussion!
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G8ADD:
Yes, I know Brian, but it doesn’t say must. Not sending it or not hearing it is therefore not a problem, the QSO is good on exchange of callsigns/reports alone. This is not what the OP was saying.
The sending of the ref. becomes redundant for just about all QSOs as soon as the activator is spotted anyway!
Andy
CT9/MM0FMF
In reply to OK1CZ:
I’m not sure whether it will have an effect Petr but we should report it. It’s hard to complain about intruders if nobody actually reports an intruder!
Andy
CT9/MM0FMF
In reply to MM0FMF:
I don’t know, Andy, “wherever possible” sounds pretty definate to me, I think that is another rule that needs re-writing!
AS for redundancy, a few of those spotted references get corrected on the reflector from time to time, so it is better to get it from the horses mouth!
Thanks for the contact today, QRP to QRP, the most pleasing contact in ages for me!
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G8ADD:
I only took the 817 mic because you asked me, so I was glad to work you! I QSY’d to 15m after and had a good chat with Don G0RQL. By then the battery was getting a bit tired so the 817 would be struggling to get full power, This 817 produces at best 4.6W so anywhere from 2.5W up was available. Sill with a clear frequency Don had no problem with me, much better than our 17m contact.
I worked a QRP S2S contacts on each summit. Today it was OE9HRV/p on 15m and Mike 2E0YYY/p on 17m. The contact with Mike was marginal and he was lost into QSB and QRM. Tuning the antenna was a doddle on both summits as the beach test taught me to shorten the radial past the calibration markers. As usual there were lots of people calling CQ contest on 15m which would explain why 17m SSB was so busy.
Andy
CT9/MM0FMF
In reply to OK1CZ:
In 3 years, never been able to chase Eu or be chased by Eu on 40.
Not saying QRP cannot work on 40 as I made some contacts with my SOTA setup with Europe but in the very late evening…
So I have to agree with CZ.
In reply to MM0FMF:
I worked a QRP S2S contacts on each summit. Today it was OE9HRV/p on
15m and Mike 2E0YYY/p on 17m. The contact with Mike was marginal and
he was lost into QSB and QRM.
Thanks for the very nice S2S, Andy. Your signal was well workable on 17m, even with your reduced power. However, the problem arose from the Italian station exactly 2 Kcs down, running what appeared to be huge power, who battered your signal into submission every time he keyed up 
73 Mike
2E0YYY
In reply to 2E0YYY:
17m was very busy on SSB, 15m was better even with lots of people calling “contest”. The frequency I picked was clear my end but Carolyn G6WRW said it was bad and we QSY’d which got worse with time. Classic problem of trying to hold a frequency when you’re QRP and the band is busy.
Still there’s an exotic S2S for you Mike.
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to G8ADD:
I have to agree with Andy.
Generally a QSO is valid if callsigns and reports are exchanged.
It has been a general rule for ham radio contacts for ages so why to rewrite the rules?
What sense would it have to force activators to send their ref in each QSO? Everyone can read the ref on Sotawatch or can get it once in a couple of QSOs when the op sends it.
In expedition style QSOs (which is the case with most activations and associated pile ups) I cannot imagine the callsigns and ref exchanged in each QSO. It would introduce big delays and would make situation in pile ups even worse that it is now.
In reply to OK1CZ:
I do agree with you, but the rules of SOTA do appear to strongly recommend if not mandate that the summit reference be sent. I think that at our next revision of the rules we should consider removing the requirement for sending the summit reference in each contact. On the other hand we sometimes get incorrect summit references spotted, so perhaps it would be wise to announce the summit reference occasionally?
73
Brian G8ADD
Depends how busy you are and what else you are doing. If you are simulataneously in a VHF contest, or working down a 20m CW pile-up, then sending the ref every 9 or 10 contacts is more than enough.
As a general rule, I send the ref every time I need to “start again” with a CQ call.
Tom M1EYP
I agree with Brian. It is good practice if working SOTA “contest style” (which many of us do) to send the summit reference every three or five contacts or at least once every five minutes, at the start of the activation and before any QSY or going QRT.
Chasers should never assume the name the summit is what they see on their computer screen, although on occasion there is no alternative if the activator is reticent by not giving it out.
73 Phil
In reply to G4OBK:
I fell in this trap on yesterdays activation. I was working “contest stile” on 10MHz CW and was assuming everybody had my reference from the spot. Unfortunately the ref in the spot was incorrect. At the end of my run I noticed that more and more people were asking for my reference. So some operators must have noticed that their is a discrepancy. Unfortunately nobody bothered to spot again with the correct reference.
Lesson Learned: I will make it a habbit to announce my reference every 8 - 10 contacts.
Heinz, OE5EEP
In reply to G4OBK:
Send the ref every 3 or 4 QSOs is what I’m doing and IMHO its the good way to go.