The comments about “little chance of success” on 70cm are interesting. This was the case for 12m before the 12m Challenge - and indeed a motivation for running a challenge on that band. Having a challenge would significantly increase activity on any given band.
Tom M1EYP
In reply to M1EYP:
The comments about “little chance of success” on 70cm are interesting.
This was the case for 12m before the 12m Challenge - and indeed a
motivation for running a challenge on that band. Having a challenge
would significantly increase activity on any given band.
The difference between 70cms and 12m is, as Andy said, the availibility of non-SOTA chaser stations. A lot of people with generic HF stations at home can do 12m without too much trouble. This is not true for 70cms which generally needs a dedicated antenna on a rotator to get any meaningful signal out.
Colin G8TMV
In reply to G4OIG:
A six metre activity day could be a huge success with double/multiple hop Es into North America, the Caribbean, North Africa and the Middle East (and the equivalent for other parts of the world) but it could a morale-sapping flop with no propagation at all. I feel that a single activity day would make the concept of a six metre challenge a hostage to fortune.
The thing about the 12 metre challenge is that it brought SOTA activity to a band that already saw significant DX activity: with solar activity co-operating success was assured, all you had to do was operate and there was a high probability of a qualified activation and some DX. To achieve another successful challenge you need a band with assured activity that is under utilised for SOTA and does not present a major technical challenge for either activators or chasers. This rather limits our options!
Seventy cems is an option despite the low level of general activity, but its success would depend on the activator activity catching the imagination of chasers and generating more activity. Six metres is, in theory at least, a good option in that many people who don’t use the band do have it available on their rigs, and during Es openings (which at the height of the summer season can be almost daily) many potential chasers would be available. Top Band and 80 are seasonal, and at their least effectiveness during the summer months, they also need rather long antennas, but again they are on most rigs even if the owners don’t use them. Ten metres resembles six in many ways, with better odds of the ionosphere co-operating but bigger antennas. 18 megs is another possibility, it could be as popular as the recent challenge and will work better than 12 and 10 as the sunspot cycle declines. Really, though, I don’t think there is a band offering a challenge as widely acceptable as 12 metres, so I suspect that future band-based challenges might not generate as much interest as the 12 metre challenge did.
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to M1EYP:
Having a challenge on 70cm would certainly increase activity on that band. No doubt, but, would it be at the necessary level as to make all of us have good fun activating and chasing on that band?
Unless it’s tried we’ll never find out…
Best 73 de Guru - EA2IF
In reply to G8ADD:
I have to agree with your analysis Brian, 12m challenge may have been a victim of its own success! It was the right band for the time with the solar maximum.
An idea for (local) summer months only is say a 10m FM challenge. Run for 2 months at the peak of the Es season you get the chance of DX yet the antennas are manageable. By making it FM you introduce a skill in not running out of battery power due to FM’s power hunger. Coupled with the fact that relying on Es for the DX fun, you can run it every year as there will be always be some Es instead of a once and for all challenge. As it only runs for 1/6 of the year, it doesn’t become the be all and end all either. You can spice it up further with a 6m component (FM? maybe not, just SSB for 6m) for the same 2 months.
You make use of a regular but (clue is in the name) sporadic propagation mode. 6m is standard on HF rigs now. Anyone who does HF can rig small yet effective 6m/10m antennas. During Es, 6m and 10m have non-SOTA people for activators to work so they should always find it worthwhile to try.
For 70cms, I think you’re really looking for a number of challenge weekends when you can be sure others will know to be on the band. Maybe it will tend to more of an S2S event with well equipped or well located chasers able to join in.
Andy
MM0FMF
In reply to MM0FMF:
Say Topband and 24GHz!
Heh! With a multiplier something like (longest wavelength)/(shortest wavelength) 
73, Rick M0LEP
In reply to MM0FMF:
Hi Andy,
It is good to have a discussion on a future challenge but perhaps it should have it’s own thread? Unless of course the next challenge is similar to the 12 m one but on half the wavelength.
The 12 m challenge as you created it was to promote the use of 12 m for SOTA. A very good idea to make use of a neglected band that could be accessed with easy to build antennas and one that was on most transceivers. Also the sunspot activity was expected to yield global dx. Well the challenge has been a great success. I congratulate you on a fine idea. It will be hard to get a replacement as good.
What to do to replace it? Well I have to say none of the ideas floated so far have ignited my imagination.
There is a saying, if it’s not broke, don’t fix it. I know you may be bored with the 12 m challenge, but as the sunspot activity declines it will be more challenging, but not without its excitement.
Maybe you could cobble a line or two of code so the next one is the 2015 12 m challenge that runs for the whole of 2015. Then the 2016 challenge could run for the 2016 calendar year and so on. That gives a 6 month break for the weary 12 m warriors before starting a new series of challenges. The solar cycle has a few years yet of dx for 12 m and there will always be sporadic e on that band.
I know there has been some muttering in the ranks because 12 m is not available to all amateurs. Such divisions have always existed and the only fix is to upgrade. At least 12 m is available in most countries, unlike 4 m.
I sniggered at your little joke about using FM because it drains the batteries faster but some folk might take it seriously. They might want us to use lead acid batteries, valve technology and steel masts, and 160 m only, just for the challenge.
If inclusivity is to be part of the next challenge, don’t forget half the world is on the other side of the equator and the seasons and sporadic E peaks are 180 degrees out of phase with bonny Scotland. A 2 month time scale based on “summer” in Scotland would be more of a lock-out than a challenge south of the equator. Not that I am against a region based challenge but to date SOTA has been available world wide in all its facets.
Returning to 6 m.
Like 12 m it is under utilised for SOTA. It would probably be the next best alternative to another 12 m challenge. Because of TV and other services and local licencing rules it is not available to everyone without restriction. Also it mostly will be useable for troppo and single hop E’s, further restricting QSO probability. But antennas can be lighter and smaller than for 12 m.
That’s my 10 c worth.
73
Ron.
In reply to MM0FMF:
Andy,
I think FM is a poor DX mode for lower powers, QSB and its handling of QRM. The threshold effect in receivers tends to mean that when signals are at the lower end of readability, any reduction in signal degrades in readability much more quickly than SSB’s linear detector would at the equivalent signal level. It handles multiple signals very poorly, often resulting in zero copy of both signals if they are of similar strengths, when ssb simply gives you two voices. But you know that already.
Of course there are always contacts made occasionally that provided the advantages of FM (good audio quality, noise free, etc) but these are the exceptions rather than the rule.
The other issue as pointed out by Ron VK3AFW is that FM is the toughest mode in terms of battery consumption on transmit. That’s fine if you only need to make a few short calls to make your 4 contacts, but if you need to spend an hour on 10m FM to make 4 contacts, which would not be uncommon here, you would find that battery capacity becomes the limiting factor to the activations.
There is a good case for promoting 15m and 10m in vk due to them being common bands to all licence classes. Whatever the official challenge band becomes after 12m, I think 15 and 10 will gradually increase in usage here.
I’ve enjoyed using 12m and it has encouraged me to consider it more often, so from that perspective the 12m challenge has been a very good agent for change…
73
Andrew
vk1da/2uh
In reply to MM0FMF:
It is possible to activate Scottish hills (even near Edinburgh!) on 2m FM -sometimes. See my log for April/May 2013 to prove it - using a VX7, home-made dipole and a maximum of 5w. Occasionally I didn’t get anywhere and had to go on to 40m with M0JLA’s help but it was really the trees that defeated me (Knock of Crieff, Drummond Hill) as much as the small population within my operating area. Once I had gained a small following, on any particular day, of local chasers then (with luck!) they were waiting for me to set up on the next summit. This was a great comfort when we staggered up our 4th summit (SS-190, Lendrick Hill) on 5 May 2013 to start calling at 1813 and I had my 4 contacts in 15 minutes (and 9 by the time I closed down at 1850). This time M0JLA shared MY contacts and didn’t try HF at all!
Please don’t set a challenge on 70cm as I am having a very interesting time trying to get 4 contacts on both 2m and 70cm in the local area (WB and SW) and also down in Dorset (where I worked Guernsey on 70cm). Some areas in the West Midlands have a thriving net on 70cm but others are much harder to find contacts. I often ask 2m contacts to QSY and most are very helpful - and amazed when the signal is actually better than on 2m. I have even had the odd pile-up! BTW I am using the 2m dipole for 70cm so nothing extra to carry.
Viki M6BWA
Dear all,
This afternoon I dropped my oldest daughter in the center of Pamplona for a class mates birthday party at 17:30 (local) and I was instructed to pick her up at 20:30.
That meant a great 3 hours time windom for a SOTA activation.
I decided to activate the close to Pamplona Mount San Cristobal, which is the one I usually activate on Saturday mornings on 2m FM because the time window I have at that time is only 15-20 minutes. I had always thought about activating this summit on HF some day when I had the time in order to offer the summit to a wider SOTA community, not only the locals QRV on 2m FM.
Today I have not only activated this summit on HF, but also I have carried out my first SOTA activation on 6m ever.
I prepared yesterday an old 5/8 wave home brew vertical antenna made with copper gas pipe, plus 4 wire radials to be layed on ground.
With my FT-817ND at 5 watts and this antenna I managed 11 QSOs in EU countries such as OK, HA, OE, 9A, S5, DL and SP, plus some local EA in 25 minutes.
I didn’t expect such success, as I had in my memory last year IARU 50MHz contest in which I used this same set-up from the top of another near summit and I languished totally bored in lonelyness unable to make any single QSO out of some few locals.
After 6m, I QSYed to 20m and made 14 QSOs in 11 minutes. Finally I QSYed to 12m because although I know the challenge is over and there would be less activity, I wanted to take advantage of the 5/8 wave antenna for 12m that the 7m wire inside my telescopic fishing pole represents. Unfortunatelly I was running out of time and I just worked 4 stations in 5 minutes, after which I had to QRT, pack everything up, descent and go to the meeting point for picking up just in time my daughter after her birthday party.
Everything went well and I want to thank all my chasers for your calls.
Best 73 de Guru - EA2IF
A second activation on 6m this afternoon wasn’t as successful as yesterday’s.
I activated a summit very close to my QTH (Erreniega EA2/NV-092), the one covered by snow in one of the pictures in my QRZ.com BIO.
My 2 little kids (4 and 9) were with me, so I only called on 6m and didn’t want to change antenna to work any other bands, as the kids soon started to tell me they were bored and they wanted first water, later go down to the car, later go home… the typical thing with kids.
I managed to keep them busy searching for animals, pretty stones, flowers, whatever.
With all these distractions, plus the help of my friends Ignacio-EA2BD and Manuel-EA2DT spotting me, I only made 3 QSOs, one of which was local with Santi EA2BSB in Pamplona, who is progressing well on his CW, another one was a S2S with Marcial EA2BDS/P in EA2/VI-052 and the 3rd one was a good DX with EA8DBM who put an excellent strong signal into my S-meter. This showed me that conditions seemed to be good so I kept calling CQ for some more time, but unfortunately nobody else came back to me.
The lack of chasers, plus the pressure of my 2 little kids urging me to finish off, made me finally switch off the rig, pack up and descent to the car to go home.
Well, todays experience is closer to the idea I had of the 6m band from my last IARU 6m contest, however, I’ll try again soon hoping to see a bit more activity in the “magic but sometimes boring band”.
Best 73 de Guru - EA2IF
In reply to EA2IF:
Hello Guru, sorry you could not validate the summit.
I saw your spot on 50 MHz and I tried to contact you, NorCal Doublet Antenna - FT817 5W, the signal was very weak but clear and noiseless.
It was my first QSO on the 50Mhz band, I hope to make time to build me a light antenna for this band.
CU Guru, 73
EA2BDS Marcial
In reply to EA2IF:
I sympathise. I got stuck with only 3 QSOs (on 12 metres rather than 6) on Wilmington Hill at the end of April; it’s very frustrating (especially when calling on 2 metres FM (which I’d taken as fallback) also fails to raise any replies).
73, Rick M0LEP
In reply to M0LEP:
Only getting 3 QSOs must be the SOTA equivalent of coming 4th in the Olympics.
Fortunately, it has not yet happened to me. Have ATU, will avoid non-qualification. 
73, Gerald G4OIG
In reply to G4OIG:
Have ATU, will avoid non-qualification.
…or send Paul down outside of the AZ with a 2m HT to work you using both of his callsigns! Highly unlikely you would ever need to do that though with your usual MO Gerald, as you infer.
I once got stuck on 3 QSOs on Kisdon G/NP-026, and had to abandon without the point. I nearly had to do this on Cairgnaver GI/MM-017 very recently, but a chaser came to the rescue!
Tom M1EYP
In reply to M1EYP:
I once got stuck on 3 QSOs on Kisdon G/NP-026, and had to abandon
I nearly had to do this on Cairgnaver GI/MM-017
very recently, but a chaser came to the rescue!
I think that was me who came to the rescue 
Happy to help Tom, luckily I was indoors on a Saturday evening which is extremely rare!
73 de Mick M0MDA
It was indeed Mick! Check-in for our return ferry closed at 9.30pm - or so we were led to believe beforehand. I think if I had have been a few minutes later than that it wouldn’t have been a problem, but I wasn’t to know that in advance! As it was, we drove into check-in at Stena Line at 9.25pm, about 26 minutes after working you for the qualifying contact!
Tom M1EYP
In reply to M1EYP:
Glad you made the ferry on time, that’s good going 26 mins 
Hope to catch you or Jimmy on your next activation.
73 de Mick M0MDA
In reply to M1EYP:
I think if I had have been a few minutes later than that it wouldn’t have been a problem, but I wasn’t to know that in advance!
A few years back I was a regular user of that ferry, (12 times per year), and I have seen many people refused check-in and left stranded at the dock. I now frequently use Stena Belfast/Cairnryan and have also witnessed this at both Ports - moral of the story - don’t be late !!!
Victor
GI4ONL
In reply to G4OIG:
Have ATU, will avoid non-qualification.
ATU and a suitable antenna. I was stuck on Wilmington Hill with a damaged pole that’d only support the 24MHz GP vertical, not the 18MHz or 14MHz ones. I really didn’t expect to find nobody answering on 145.5MHz FM though.
Plus one for antennas that’ll work well enough on multiple bands, I guess. Must make something for 6 metres.
73, Rick M0LEP