500mW out the running bag

hi all,

next time i try to activate some summits with qrpp 500mW to 1 Watt out due to the small batteries. antenna is a linked wire 10/5 mtrs long with the same as counterpoise.all have place in a small running bag.
the regular activations stays as 5-10watts QRO :slight_smile: with a lot of wire in the air :wink:
normaly qrp works for me only with good antennas, but…
doing this qrpp fun, because i´m often running on the hills for my condition training for other sports with a lot of need for fitness.also the hummelsberg dm/bw-228 can do a lot for fitness if you don´t take the carpark as startpoint ;-). but why not do a small break with a sota activation on the top ?
i will set no alerts, i try to call first around 7032 khc…other qrg´s i try to spot via rrt. think the only mode is cw that works with this little output into not so good antennas.operating time also not so long as in other activations…

greeting an hope to work you from the summtis

Klaus DF2GN/p

by the way…please send your callsign only once in qrpp activations !
its really hard for me in simplex to find a gap to send callsigns es rst.
so please listen…

In reply to DF2GN:

Klaus wrote “by the way…please send your callsign only once in qrpp activations !”

It would be appreciated if this could be read as "by the way…please send your callsign only once in ALL activations !"
In addition please do not repeat your callsign (2x or 2x2x …) when your callsign has been confirmed by the activator. Thanks.

73 es hpe cuagn,
Heinz HB9BCB

In reply to all:

I have seen many variations on my call (G6DTN), so when I am chasing S2S, I usually send:

My call (twice), my summit (twice), your report (twice). This seems to work. Your comments, please.

BTW, I only started using cw recently, my cw isn’t very good and I am QRS (12 - 15 wpm), sent with a cheap straight key on the ground when on the hills. Also I still have to write all I receive (better than not using cw at all!). Many ops do, but, please, it is much easier for me if you reply at my speed or use Farnsworth - much quicker than sending a repeat. At my age, it is unlikely that I will ever attain the skills of some ops.

Thank you and 73s de Dave, G6DTN/P

In reply to M0DFA:
Like you Dave, I have seen quite a few variations of my call M6BLV. I have tried sending my call only once, and on 90% of replies I receive back, M6? or LV? etc, so then i have to repeat my call. But if I send my call twice, I very rarely have to correct it. I have always tried to follow CW etiquette, but when I listen to other operators, I am often left wandering what the correct etiquette is. Anyone know???

73s de John M6BLV

In reply to M6BLV:

what the correct etiquette is. Anyone know???

The correct ettiquette is what the activator asks for!

I will admit that if you sent M6BLV in CW to me it would throw me. Simply because my brain is not tuned to hearing M6 in Morse. Similarly with G6. Just the same happens when I’m working 20/17/15/12m and a local GM calls. My brain has prefiltered out GM/MM calls I they catch me out everytime.

p.s. Thanks for the S2S on Sunday Klaus, our first contact I think.

Andy
MM0FMF

In reply to M6BLV:

In reply to M0DFA:
Like you Dave, I have seen quite a few variations of my call M6BLV. I
have tried sending my call only once, and on 90% of replies I receive
back, M6? or LV? etc, so then i have to repeat my call. But if I send
my call twice, I very rarely have to correct it. I have always tried
to follow CW etiquette, but when I listen to other operators, I am
often left wandering what the correct etiquette is. Anyone know???

73s de John M6BLV

John I think we’re talking about different things here. Yes, you should correct your call if incorrect, perhaps sending twice or maybe just the prefix or suffix twice (whichever is necessary). What Klaus is on about is the small group of chasers who send their call continuously and then when answered reply with their call maybe up to 6 times! A few minutes later, they repeat the activity making it pretty obvious they can’t actually hear you at all. All this occurs over the top of ongoing operations making it difficult for chasers and activators alike. Regular chaser activators know the stations I’m talking about :slight_smile:

In reply to M6BLV:
John,

last year at the RSGB Convention Roger, G3SXW, gave a wonderful presentation on this topic. You can find the slides here: DX University

The past 4 days I was out activating 25 SOTA hills in CW only. Best is to use QSK and understand in which state the QSO is. With my KX3 and QSK switched on I was amazed how many people were already calling while I still was sending my own call. The most “challenging” QSO were with people using a PC for rx and tx CW. On the other hand after 4 days SOTA you have a database in your head and can complement partial calls to a complete callsign, e.g. on several occasions in the pile-up I could only copy “wlb” and I instantly replied with pa0wlb. Long callsings can also have advantages :slight_smile:

73 de Dominik, HB9CZF

In reply to M6BLV:

I have always tried to follow CW etiquette

I have always understood that 2 facets of cw etiquette are:

Don’t send faster than you can copy.

Don’t reply faster than the sender.

General reply:

I realise that, for ops with keyers it is difficult to change speed (esp when it is cold), but it would help to reduce the overall speed by sending Farnsworth (ie, longer spaces between elements). While, as I have said, many ops voluntarily slow down for me, there are some (even relatively new users of cw) who don’t. (If the cap fits - wear it!)

Comments, esp from QRQ ops, would be appreciated

73s de Dave, G6DTN

In reply to M0DFA:
Hi Dave

Here my view of a “QRQ” activator. I always start my initial CQ at 25wpm and I run the pile-up contest-like. My assumptions for a chaser are:

  • he is sitting at home and has an eye on his PC.
  • he already knows my call, my qrg, my SOTA reference
  • the only thing he has to copy is his own call and understand the rythm of the QSO going back and forth.

Now what happens if a chaser calls at e.g. 15wpm ? I still reply at 25wpm because the majority have no issue understanding their own call. The rest they already know. Less than 10% might have an issue and here simply reply with a “?” which signals to me to slow down my cw speed and I will do.

It also helps to call towards the end of an activation when all the QRM fades.

Sometimes we have to deal with very weak signals. BTW: I received many 229, 339, 439 reports and that’s when I add addional redundancy. e.g. “r r r 73 73” to signal I have everything ok. Farnsworth helps a lot too.

These are challenges I experienced on several hills:

  • will the SOTApole survive the wind ? (especially when I’m in GW/SW)
  • does my TRX get wet (that was on GW/SW-006)
  • can I hear the CW signals through the stormy wind?
  • I log on paper. Does it fly away, can I read my handwriting later again, did I note the time of the QSO and the QRG?
  • I have to hold somehow my palm-paddle and the pencil at the same time
  • have an eye on the weather, animal (sheep, gadfly, midges), people, …
  • and if I have time I can play with RIT and the CW speed.

I must admit I’m an CW-only OP on HF, learned CW when I was 16, had a special CW training while I was in the army and love contesting.

And the easiest way to get proficient in CW is to make QSO, a few thousand Contest/SOTA-QSO and in the end you will enjoy the beautiful view on top of a lonely mountain top :slight_smile:

73 de Dominik, HB9CZF

Heinz HB9BCB wrote:
"It would be appreciated if this could be read as "by the way…please send your callsign only once in ALL activations !“
In addition please do not repeat your callsign (2x or 2x2x …) when your callsign has been confirmed by the activator. Thanks.”

if i´m not on 30 or 40m there is no problem to make a bit longer qso´s with name etc. and greetings,infos at dx or qso´s on 20,17m…but sometimes by good propagation you have to work around 50-70 chasers alone on 40m. and if you have limited time as an activator or wx is changing you think about to call in on 40m or not…

there are two qso procedures we can do then in the pile ups.

Example A:

CQ SOTA DE DF2GN/P k
DC6TK
DC6TK 599
R 599 TU
TU

Example B:

CQ SOTA DE DF2GN/P k
DF2GN/P de DC6TK DC6TK DC6TK
DC6TK 599
de DC6TK DC6TK thanks ur 599 599 599 de DC6TK DC6TK
R 599 TU
73 gl de DC6TK DC6TK
TU

maybe a bit overdone example, but lets think about…
listen in and you see what mode the activator prefer…

vy 73 Klaus DF2GN/p,

who also likes ragchewing if enough time, wx is stable and i don´t have to fight with ticks and moskitos…:slight_smile:

“and again without the use of a translator ;-)”

In reply to HB9CZF:
These are challenges I experienced on several hills:

  • will the SOTApole survive the wind ? (especially when I’m in GW/SW)
  • does my TRX get wet (that was on GW/SW-006)
  • can I hear the CW signals through the stormy wind?
  • I log on paper. Does it fly away, can I read my handwriting later again, did I note the time of the QSO and the QRG?
  • I have to hold somehow my palm-paddle and the pencil at the same time
  • have an eye on the weather, animal (sheep, gadfly, midges), people, …
  • and if I have time I can play with RIT and the CW speed.

Hello Dominik,

You could not have been more accurate with your discription of CW operating in GW/SW, probably the same everywhere to be honest… and you are quite correct it can be somewhat difficult to fiddle around with filtering and keyer speed in those conditions.

Like you I tend to stay at a set speed and must say that I haven’t had any issues,to be fair it is only an exchange of reports, not the hardest thing to learn.

Steve MW0BBU.

In reply to M0DFA:
“At my age, it is unlikely that I will ever attain the skills of some ops.”

Dave, have faith in your own ability, as with everything else the more you do it the better you will become… wider spacing does help, it’s how I got going on CW.

Steve MW0BBU.

In reply to DF2GN:

To avoid any misunderstanding:
My comment is mainly related to pile up conditions caused by competing chasers operating at QRO levels (arriving with S9+10…S9+40 dB on the summits).

73 es gl,
Heinz HB9BCB
… who also likes ragchewing (if not disturbed by busy working QRO chasers…) ;-))

In reply to DF2GN:

Good points all round. I can relate to all that rain, wind noise and paper flying around. The midges on GI/MM-001 a couple of weeks ago nearly drove me to pull out after 4 contacts yet folks were still breaking into long winded QSO mode when I was operating rapid fire - callsign 599 mode.

In these instances, although it’s very nice normally, I don’t for instance need to be reminded of my callsign and that my name is Peter every contact. Chasers should be aware that if there’s a big pile up, briefness and speed is the name of the game unless you hang back as a tail ender!

And a tail ender is really the best place to be if you are QRS IMHO and always always use QSK. Yesterday there was a chaser operating at about 8-10 wpm. The activator was completing entire exchanges with others before they had even sent their callsign once, and they were sending at least twice each time without any apparent awareness of the QRM produced!

I don’t class myself as a QRQ op, normally starting with 25wpm on SOTA but I will drop back in speed both for QRS ops and when condx dictate, normally when I’m getting into lots of 339 territory.
To change speed (or tune around with RIT) however detracts from keeping the rig dry, the paper in place, fingers warm and the pencil between my teeth whilst battling off the wildlife. Then of course there are the inquisitive hikers who want to know if you’ve caught any fish yet, are you a spy, are you tracking paragliders etc etc… whilst trying to listen to a pile up through one ear bud containing some persistent chasers who can’t even hear you.

As a chaser, I find there’s rarely any rush to bag a contact, with most ops working through their pile up before going QRT. I’m very often the last chaser in an activators log because it’s pointless for me to battle it out with the big guns with my QRP signal and minimal antennas (I run 5W max). It’s a rare occasion that an activator goes QRT before I work them although it does happen from time to time. I can live with that :slight_smile:

Regardless of code speed, the main thing is to listen and be aware of what is going on. The guys sending LSN are doing so for a reason…