Have lost count of the number of QSOs which
simply would not be possible on SSB but have been successful on CW
(GM4CFS/p on 5 MHz several times recently comes to mind)
You’ll be pleased to know that I’ve bought a Palm Paddle for my 817 just so I can work you when conditions are not conducive to SSB Cris. That, and give some points away to non-UK ops on 40m CW where my 5W of SSB is of limited use. Of course it would help if I could use the damn thing!
I do love to hear of people wanting more 2m SSB activations. The very reason I gave up on 2m is the sheer difficulty of working people up here on that band. I can remember calling CQ on 2m FM from Moel Fammau. Trivial to activate the hill. Then I tried the same from Scald Law. I was QRV for in well excess of an hour in -5C conditions and in the end had to interrupt someone’s QSO on 70cms to get my 4th and 5th contacts. I was so cold at the end I was barely able to pack up.
Now Scald Law overlooks Edinburgh so I was LOS to a large city and a good path to many other towns in the vicinity and getting contacts on 2m was like getting blood out of a stone. What many people who live in the NW of England fail to understand is how lucky they are. They are in easy 2m range of the NW, LD, NP and SP hills. Often you need no more than a handy with a rubber duck and about a 1W for SOTA joy from the summit. Up here, you may aswell take a large stone up with you. It weighs about the same as a handy and is as much use!
If I’m going to carry radios up to the top, I’d like to be able to have a QSO with someone when I get there. So until there are as many chasers listening up here on 2m as there are in the English NW and Midlands then that means HF for me. If you consider there are probably 15m people within easy handy+rubber duck range from Moel Fammau and the entire population of Scotland is only 5m (none of whom appear to have a licence or 2m) then you may appreciate the scale of the problem!
I’ll continue to operate 60m SSB as a 1st choice, call in vain on 2m, occasionally 80m and when I gain the courage, try 40m CW. If I can’t work most people in the UK given that range of modes and bands, then, and I’m sorry to be a little confrontational, but I think the problem will not be with me at my end.
And I’m sorry for being tetchy but I haven’t been up a hill for 3 weeks and I’ve got cabin fever. Probably Allermuir Hill tomorrow. To hell with trying to do uniques only, I’ve got climb up something.
In reply to MM0FMF:
To get back to the noise problem! How’s this for exclusion? Since around 11 this morning, I have wished that I could say conditions on 20m have been very good, poor or whatever. As I write noise from a TV somewhere in the neighbourhood has my s-meter sitting at S9 across the band. At the peaks it is S9+20. I can hear a pile-up around 14026 but unless I look at the DX-cluster I will not know who is being chased; it is impossible to hear him. From this location, CW is essential. It is not only far more efficient than SSB but the vast majority of my SOTA QSOs would not have happened had the activator used SSB only.
Is it not possible to agree on a call-up frequency for 40 SSB. I enjoy making CW contacts into Europe but it would be nice to hear the voices of the operators I contact.
from Charlie G0PZO
Nothing odd if you think about it for a moment. Whilst five watts and
a rudimentary antenna on a hilltop will not be much use on SSB, the CW
signal will (almost) always “come up trumps”. Sitting back
in the shack, with a better antenna and one hundred watts of SSB will
probably make the QSO possible.>
73 de Les, G3VQO
I agree 100% Les and maybe I haven’t explained properly what I was trying to say.
Incidentally, and I repeat myself, cw is and always will be my favourite mode of operation, it is without a shadow of a doubt the most penetrating mode available, especially under flat conditions or in heavy qrn and is also electrically very efficient, ie lower current drainage on our precious SLABs and nobody can argue against that point.
I was referring to the changes in sota that I have noticed in the short time that I have been involved.
There does appear to be a swing towards cw only operation, also a lot of activators use 60m more often, what’s the problem? none whatsoever, the activator is King and we should never question his/her methods, come to think of it, I’ve never heard a single cw op complain about a fm/ssb only activation, hi.
What I do find “unfair” though, is to operate as an activator, solely on cw and not offer ssb/fm, but to then operate as a chaser and claim chaser points using fone fm/ssb.
The other point is that 5Mhz is often deemed to be unfair in as much that it is not available to all associations, however there are other alternatives to 60m, as John EI/GW4BVE/P and Steve DL/G1INK/P so magnificently showed us on their recent activations in lands where 5Mhz is forbidden.
One thing is for certain though, the debate will go on and on for years to come.
The thing is though Mike, I find it is always a good idea, when operating as a chaser, to operate on the SAME band and mode as the activating station at that time - even if it is “unfair”! Don’t tend to make many QSOs otherwise. If I only chased on CW, would I be allowed to do a 2m FM only activation?
I think we need to stay away from this “what is fair”/“what is unfair” stuff. The rules of SOTA have always been that you can use whatever band and mode you are entitled to use in your licence schedule. That’s it really.
It is then up to activators to decide for themselves what selection of bands/modes/aerials/powers etc to use in order to make contacts. Because having walked up a mountain, they do actually want to make contacts! Believe me, having struggled (and occasionally failed) to make the four contacts after many a long tiring ascent, it really is one’s mission to be contacted! ‘Excluding’ people is that last thing on one’s mind.
Let’s have a safety and reality and check here too. Mountain summits are, generally, not suitable places to be lingering around for too long. I have done 423 SOTA activations. It is only on a fraction of those that weather and other conditions and circumstances have been suitable for an extended stay. The first (and only) responsibility of an activator is to his/her own safety. I can never buy into this concept that the activator has any kind of duty to chasers to offer this band and mode or that band and mode. At the end of the day, if the activator judges his/her audience incorrectly, then he/she will not make any contacts. The requirement for the points is to make four contacts. If an activator makes 20 contacts on CW, then they have offered considerably more than the minimum haven’t they?
No, let every participant in the SOTA Programme do what they want, just as they can in amateur radio generally. There are more than enough activations of all the different bands and modes to go round and keep everyone happy.
I can’t see for the life of me what is unfair about that Mike.
The simple fact is that the vast majority of activations today were from mainland Europe, with none from England whatsoever. Why? Because it was tipping it down all day, and we have all known for a week that it was going to be.
So the statistics are flawed. You can’t seriously quote your totals from a day like today and claim that it points to some kind of trend in SOTA activity!
If there is a trend towards CW, it is very much Euro-centric. It isn’t mirrored here in the UK. OK, I have gone over to CW, but that’s only one person, and I do always call on 2m FM before I descend (don’t I Mike?). And on a point-scoring activation, if I am on CW, Jimmy is always alongside me calling into a mike. Virtually all the others that use CW in the UK have always done so, it’s not like they’ve recently gone over to the dark side.
It does look like there’s much more of a culture of CW for portable amateur radio over in Europe. We have to accept that, we ain’t gonna change it.
Well, if the overall balance needs it, next time I’m on a hill in the sunny SE I’ll use FM. Of course, all my calls will remain unanswered, but if it helps keep the peace …
Well now I’m back this is certainly an interesting thread as I was just thinking about how to do my first Wendover Woods HF activations… by Tuesday I’ll have 5 MHz capabilities on my radio too.
It seems to me that there is an assumption that chasers have some sort of right to just chase on SSB… well if that is the case then surely the activator has the same right doesn’t he/she to choose CW?
In any case I would advocate that an activator on a 1000M peak in poor conditons is being extrmemly prudent to work as many people as possible and then get off down… and with 5W one could assume that the best way to acheive that end is with CW… on a better day, he/she might think differently but there is no reason to berate them for their good judgement etc.
Anyway, when I got my licence 24 years ago, I didn’t want to do CW… but I had to in order to get onto HF… and then it took me a long time to start using it.
So, rather than worry about it, use that energy to learn a new skill… and if you dont want to… fine… just let the others use CW as they like.
I will be using SSB and CW from Wendover Woods… but as to how much and on which bands… that will depend on how it goes for me… and of course I will continue to chase on whatever mode I like…
BTW… Where are all the RTTY activations… I’m getting really fed up that people aren’t satisfying my wish on that and all those other data modes
So I really dont mind about what people use. I didn’t worry that I had no NOV for 5 MHz but then when I decided to join in on that band… I made the effort to get the NOV… (BTW, which was quick and painless).
After all, it’s a great hobby, and one where you can learn something as you go along… I think we’re all doing a grand job of that but let’s not sweat about it either.
I can’t see for the life of me what is unfair about that Mike.
The simple fact is that the vast majority of activations today were
from mainland Europe, with none from England whatsoever.
So the statistics are flawed. You can’t seriously quote your totals
from a day like today and claim that it points to some kind of trend
in SOTA activity!
Why can’t I quote stats from yesterday? Why are my stats flawed? What has the UK wx got to do with it? Does sota close down internationally when it rains in the UK?
It seems unfair to me, maybe unfair is the wrong choice of word.
My point exactly Tom!!
SOTA is international, not just British.
Saturday 30th June was not cancelled this year, All those contacts I mention actually took place yesterday, they weren’t fictional, are you telling me that there is a microphone ban on the continent? especially if it is raining in the UK ?
My point was that because of the wx, virtually all SOTA activity was from the continent. And, as we know, virtually all continental SOTA activity is CW. Fact is, if it had’ve been nice weather in the UK, there would have been a considerably greater percentage of SSB/FM activations overall.
Hence my conclusion that yesterday’s data reflects much more on the weather than shifts in working conditions of SOTA stations. The proportions of FM/SSB/CW activations in the UK haven’t actally changed much in 5 years. Neither have they in Europe. But when the whole of the UK is washed out, leaving just the Europeans active, then we get a skewed picture - but not a statistically significant one.
In reply to M1EYP:
I went out for some real ale last night and missed this discussion - it sure took off, didn’t it?
I seem to be stuck in a rut, I reach 10 wpm and can’t get past it, and at 10 wpm I can only keep going for a few minutes before fatigue sets in and accuracy plummets. I passed my RAE in 1962 and hit the same problem then, if the B license hadn’t come along I guess I would never have got on the air! To put it in a nutshell, I seem to have a terminal inaptitude for the mode! That is not to say that I am against the mode, far from it, I would dearly love to master it, but it would be far less important to me than the mike is!
Similarly, I actually welcome the increase in CW on SOTA, and despite the difficulties involved in getting a laptop up the hill and protecting it from the elements, I would welcome an increase in digital modes, too. Its all part of ham radio! Never the less, I still feel its a pity that CW has become so dominant. Not unfair, I never even implied that, but a pity. One reason that I think it is a pity is because in a way I think an exclusively CW activation is a bit of a cop-out: the activator has concentrated on the most reliable mode and has eschewed the challenge of the less reliable but more personal speech modes. I hope that this opinion will not enrage some of the CW enthusiasts, but we are all entitled to our opinions, and to the opportunity to change other peoples opinions by respectful discussion.
There seem to be some wild accusations flying about here regarding choice of mode. I was out at an RSGB meeting yesterday and so I have to look at the SOTAwatch data to ascertain what actually happened. Despite the claims of no SSB activity, I can clearly see seven (yes, seven) activations on Saturday that were wholly or partially on a phone mode - hardly a dearth, especially given the unpleasant weather over large areas. The fact that certain complainants failed to work any suggests to me that either they weren’t trying hard enough, or that the “natural exclusion” that I talked about in an earlier post came into play.
To Brian G8ADD I say that, despite your protestations of welcoming an increase in CW activity, your long-term prejudices are showing with such comments as “CW activation is a bit of a cop-out” and “more personal speech modes”. You are entitled to your views of course, but it seems somewhat less than the even-handed opinion that you claim to be espousing.
I accept your individual view that you like to hear a voice before it seems personal, but that does not apply to everybody. I prefer to use CW as I find it personally a more satisfying, and more relaxing, way to enjoy amateur radio. If I wish to use my voice to communicate with someone I’ll go to the pub and chat over a pint!!
Basically, the old proverb “Variety is the spice of life” applies as much to SOTA as to everything else.
My point was that because of the wx, virtually all SOTA activity was
from the continent. And, as we know, virtually all continental SOTA
activity is CW. Fact is, if it had’ve been nice weather in the UK,
there would have been a considerably greater percentage of SSB/FM
activations overall.
Tom, you have just admitted it again !! In your own words above, “And, as we know, virtually all continental SOTA activity is cw”
Although I “get your drift” with the UK wx having a bearing on local 2m activity, but the fact is and the point I was making, as sota grows INTERNATIONALLY, the trend is a move towards cw only.
In reply to GW0DSP:
Mike + Northern Activators,
I think you will have to start travelling around the Southern SOTA summits to appreciate the difficutlies in qualifying, possibly after a long difficult walk for 1 point!
Although I can sympathise with those not able to use CW or 5mhz, most activators have started off with the handie on 2m FM, then progressed to HF whether it be SSB or CW - 5mhz came along later, because it is a superb band for 5watts with little QRM.
On my recent trip to Peak District, I was amazed how many people were monitoring 2m FM - in fact, I easily qualified my summits on 2m FM with the 5mhz dipole! - that just does not happen further South.
In future, if the wx is bad, I may just use 40m CW to qualify first - I only use a microphone for SOTA, if Brian G8ADD needs ‘wind noise in the mike’ - he can give me his number and I will ring him on the mobile!
Although I can sympathise with those not able to use CW or 5mhz, most
activators have started off with the handie on 2m FM, then progressed
to HF whether it be SSB or CW - 5mhz came along later, because it is a
superb band for 5watts with little QRM.
73s de Peter G(W)3TJE+
Hi Peter, that is what I was trying to get across, but you have put it into better words.
60m and cw is definately not “unfair”, I chose the wrong wording, but like you, I sympathise with those not able to do cw or 60m for whatever their reason.
I am spoiled up here purely because of where my qth is located, but I have travelled the UK and can agree 100% with your point that some areas are virtually dead zones for radio.
It’s the years old saying Peter…
You can’t please all of the people all of the time!!
as sota grows INTERNATIONALLY, the trend is a move towards cw only…
CW will certainly continue to grow within the SOTA Programme, that’s for sure, assuming that new countries that come on board have similar operating preferences to the currently active continental Europe associations.
It will never be “CW only” though. Voice modes will remain strong and steady in the UK. Many stations have announced or indicated that they have no intention of operating on the key for SOTA, you and I both do other modes as well as CW on each activation, and even CWI has deserted the mode in search of peace and quiet on the bands!
