In reply to G8ADD:
The MT will not rebuild the playground if the new model puts more
people at a disadvantage than there are people that benefit from the
changes.
I know Brian, it’s like balancing on a sharp ridge 
73 Bernhard DL4CW
In reply to 2E0KPO:
What other playground? ;D
In reply to DL4CW:
Like climbing a cheval in an earthquake, sometimes! Ooooh!
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to M1EYP:
Not sure it would be suitable for you Tom, you have to have no sense of fear, big balls of steel and a total death wish to visit my summer playground…
In reply to 2E0KPO:
Sounds like Brighton beach!
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to Brian and Tom and all:
Hello brian and Tom
SOTA program is not a competition, we all know that. But thought you think, in the sota program there is competitivness ! And that’s quite normal. It is not a bad thing to create competitivness. I don’t know why it is a shame to speak about that ! some people afraid ?
May be british people who create this program afraid not to be at the head !
Competitivness is in the life everyday ! it is utopic to think that you live in a world where everybody is nice and kind !
This competitivnes owns to each Ham, They decide or not to climb a lot or not, high or not. at first, it is a competition with its own body ! to walk, climb, ect is not so easy, it need motivation !
Brian, the competitivness, you created it, that why we speak today in that topic ! if competitivness was not, we never speak about that today ! is evidence !
2E0KPO is right ! just to look at the refletor subjets ! Please do not ignore it !
It would be great to start a serious topic on those problems. And not to wait that each country propose there own rules ! And the initiative of Tom to speak with all manager is a first step. But consider that the situation is not so fair from a country to another.
Best regards to you
Bob
In reply to G8ADD:
Living in Suffolk as M3XFG and I do just activating a summit is an achievement!! 
James
…>>
In reply to F5HTR:
I see that you agree with me, Bob. Yes, there is the opportunity to be competitive for those who like to compete, and those who do not like to compete do not have to compete.
Are you suggesting that we start a thread to discuss possible scoring systems?
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G8ADD:
Not even I would dare visit Brighton Beach in the summer.
In reply to G8ADD:
Brian, as Tom already told, probably it makes sense that each association draws up proposals first in the SOTAEMG reflector before creating an open thread. Otherwise it may cause a huge chaos here…
Anyway I will ask all regional managers and top activators in the association for their opinion before I make any proposal.
73 Dzianis
That sounds a sensible way to proceed Dzianis, and a useful approach for other AMs to follow as well.
See you on the SOTAEMG.
Tom M1EYP
In reply to M1EYP:
When i first started in sota with others that are no longer into sota, I made every trip exciting so i could have the summit to summit, and big pile ups, I have always activated on 145mhz, Before anyone shouts, yes i have done hf from summits. (but only a hand full) Well i have over 800 points for activating and over 3000 points for chasing, but alas i don’t have a trophy on the mantle piece or certificate on the wall. Yes i would agree it was addictive then but what about now !!!
Not only have the qso’s dried up on 145mhz, but its also like that not in sota, the repeaters are quite aswell, I was on 145mhz yesterday for the first time in a month and from Manchester to Birmingham i only heard two stations in qso. When i listen from the home qth i don’t hear the top chasers anymore. As for some stations calling for p100 i don’t even see them doing the p150’s. I agree sota could be better but in what way ??. if people leave then you cant force them back. When I’m out doing other things like geocaching and it takes in a summit then be it. But i done want to be taking all my equipment up the hills anymore, and sitting around for a few hours when i could be doing other things, With m,y family I just enjoy the walk. I have heard it loads of time sota is only a hobby. if you don’t like it then no-one forces you to do it.
Steve m0sgb
In reply to M0SGB:
Competitive it is, addictive? You have to be careful here in the wording or someone could be in for a lawsuit.
Has SOTA ruined your life?
Was you informed of withdrawals?
Do you feel like once off you cannot stop yourself going up another summit?
Right im off for a walk! Sean M0GIA
Sorry, am I missing something!
It is human nature to be competitive, doesn’t matter what we are doing.
I climb hills because I enjoy climbing hills, if that hill is a SOTA summit then I take my radio gear with me, if it isn’t then I don’t.
I always have my DSLR camera and equipment with me on all these climbs because I enjoy all 3 hobbies and if I can include all 3 in one trip all the better.
So yes I am competitive in I have to make it to the top of the hill, yes I need to get my 4 contacts to get my points and yes I need to get that perfect landscape/wildlife/fauna picture.
But I am only competitive with myself. Yes well done to the activators that have a vast score, they are doing what they enjoy. If they want to compete and try and be better then that is their choice.
I am always amazed at some of these scores, and I do show people who have never heard of SOTA what can be acheived. I only wish I had more time for anything let alone SOTA, working 6 days a week and living 80+ miles from any decent hills make it a problem.
So I have no chance or the inclination of competing with anyone else on the SOTA list, just myself that way I will always win.
One point on getting 4 contacts, a few times I have not got 4 and left the hill quite happy I have climbed to the summit, if I happen to climb the same hill another day I will take my radio gear with me and try again, but it is not life or death.
As for the scoring system I am happy with it, what exactly is wrong with it.
Maybe I am way off the track here, but I like this playground.
Neil 2M0NCM
In reply to G7MLO:
I was listening James but doubt anyone else was! To you this is a bit academic if you want to climb hills in Suffolk.
How about POTA “Pimples on the Air”, you spend many happy hours mapping those points where you can see the next field. I will climb SS-064 and see how many I can work:)
Come on James enter into the spirit and get competitive whats the matter with you son… you’ll never get anywhere in life:)
73
GM4GUF
(Ex Suffolk)
In reply to MM3NCM:
As for the scoring system I am happy with it, what exactly is wrong
with it.Neil 2M0NCM
Nothing much, here, Neil. According to some people there is a certain difficulty where our system is applied to the greater mountains elsewhere in the world. In the Alps you spend two days climbing one of the major summits, the first day is spent climbing to where you will make your summit bid from the next morning. In the Himalaya assuming the ropes are fixed and the camps set up, you can take several days climbing from camp to camp to reach the summit, yet the highest summits in the Alps or Himalaya are only worth ten points, the same as Snowdon. Not that Everest is in a SOTA Association as yet, but give us time!
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to GM4GUF:
Come on James enter into the spirit and get competitive whats the
matter with you son… you’ll never get anywhere in life:)
Sorry Robert, your response started well enough, but I don’t know what James thinks about the above comment, but I personally felt it was rather patronising. Perhaps the not insignificant issues of time and money happen to be a shackle around his leg. Would you be activating many summits if you still lived in Suffolk?
I do find it incredible that some people fail to understand the constraints that living far away from the summits actually imposes. This has been evident in a number of threads on the reflector in recent years. The SOTA bug can bite irrespective of where you live, it is not geographically selective. To reap the benefits of SOTA, I personally have invested a lot of time and money into activating. I count myself as being extremely fortunate to be able to do what I do and I know it won’t last for ever. For me, a typical SOTA day may start at 3 a.m. and finish as late as 11 p.m. and a typical round trip is between 300 and 400 miles. Others living in the east get over the issue by undertaking activations during a week away. Either way, if you live in the east of England and want to participate, then this is the kind of commitment that has to be put in.
I for one fully understand the comment that James made.
73, Gerald
In reply to G4OIG:
Don’t take it so seriously, Gerald, they were both flying the smiley flag!
It’s a good job you are not into rock climbing, Gerald, you’ve got Marilyns much closer than any worthwhile rocks. Some friends of mine recently drove on a Friday night to the North of Scotland to climb the Old Man of Stoer, they swam across to it Saturday and climbed it, had a meal and a drink at a hotel in the evening, slept in the car and started back Sunday morning. They nearly came unstuck, they were driving on fumes by the time they found an open garage! There are people dafter than SOTA enthusiasts!
73
Brian G8ADD
In reply to G8ADD:
I am in agreement with Neil 2M0NCM “It is human nature to be competitive, doesn’t matter what we are doing.
I climb hills because I enjoy climbing hills, if that hill is a SOTA summit then I take my radio gear with me, if it isn’t then I don’t.”
There will always be people wanting change no mater how good a system is in place but I believe they are in the minority not the majority.
If we change the scoring what do we put in its place and how do we grade summits, because you can’t grade them just by altitude, each summit would have to be graded individually by how difficult they are to activate, who wants to debate the criteria for this task!
The summits GM/SI-122 GM/SI-214 GM/SI-204 on St Kilda are all 1 pointers,
the effort involved in activating them does not justify the points gained.
What parameters would be needed for an alternative scoring system?
Altitude climbed, Grade of climb, Remoteness, Distance traveled, Winter/Summer activation, Output power, Mode, and yes points deductions for your carbon foot print.
All we need now is a mathematical algorithm in the database to give us our scores!
The scoring system we have may not always be fair, but don’t over burden SOTA with a complex system that no one will want to use.
Alan
MM0XXP
Hi All,
I activate SOTA qualifing hills as most of you know, but I going over a hill that isn’t SOTA qualifing I still put a call out on the handheld to see if anyone is listening and activate those hills for adventure radio.
You don’t need to rely on SOTA just to take your radio up the hills. Every hill in the UK you can activate for adventure radio. Some of them you can activate for WOTA if you are in the Lake District.
Jimmy M3EYP