Same OP chased me more than once = counts or not?

Looking at the code, I’m not sure that’s true. It attempts to get down to a callsign root for identity purposes, and looks to remove prefixes and suffixes. I can’t be bothered looking deeper to see how far down the rabbit hole that code is used in determining score, but of course the chances of being chased by DL/M1EYP and EA8/M1EYP in one activation are small

True. But the chances of being chased by M1EYP/M and MW1EYP/M in one activation are somewhat greater.

Tom, so here I have a different opinion. I would treat xx/call still as the same station. Station is determined by a license. Whether the station is /p or prefixed by another country prefix - IT is still the same station license by 1 license.

I would only agree this is a different station if operating in another country where one gets a license based on the mother callsign with just a prefix od the visited country.

Anyway, as started by another reply - this is theoretical to me, as unlikely to operate during one activation as a chaser from 2 countries. :slight_smile:

Let’s imagine an activator in Liechtenstein HB0 working on 2m FM. It would be perfectly feasible for a local chaser with callsign HB0XXX, chasing that activator from Switzerland as HB/HB0XXX/M, then our chaser crosses the border and chases him again as HB0XXX/M. Finally, our chaser crosses another border and chases him again as OE/HB0XXX/M.
If you are in HB0, you can get into Switzerland (HB) or Austria (OE) withing just a few minutes. I did it some years ago.
Look at its size.
imagen

73,

Guru

And that’s one station to me, just moving across the border.

Yes, I know. The database would consider those 3 QSOs as just one in terms of summit qualifying QSOs, but I honestly don’t see it fair considering this as one single station, therefore just one QSO, but considering 2 QSOs if that operator makes another QSO with the club callsign.
I believe it was several years ago when a callsign was issued for a station but I believe in these days a callsign is issued for an operator.
In the first case of a callsign issued for a station, the operator in title of his owned station had to use his station callsing when transmitting from his entitled station (i.e. EA2AA), but in case he would go to some other colleague’s station with callsign EA4BB and he would wish to transmit, he would have to use the transmitting station callsing EA4BB stroked his own station callsing EA2AA = EA4BB/EA2AA.
This was several years ago, at least in EA and it’s, fortunately, not anymore like that, as current callsigns are issued to the operator, not the radio station and we can use our own operator callsing no matter which station we are transmitting with.
This argument is to explain that if a callsing is issued for an operator, I don’t see very clear why the database will count 2 different summit qualifying QSOs if one single operator makes one QSO with his own callsing and then a second QSO with his club station callsign, being both QSOs made with exactly the same radio station, same rig, same antenna, same location, same everything.

73,

Guru

Earlier this year while on G/LD-037 I worked M0GHM/M in England and again after he crossed the border into Scotland as MM0GHM/M and I asked the question as to whether or not this counted as 2 qsos towards the 4 required to qualify the summit. The verdict was that it wouldn’t because it was the same station. Fortunately I had worked another 3 stations so I did qualify the summit.

73
Nick

The code will remove prefix and suffixes so DL/M1EYP and M1EYP/P should resolve to the same station and will only count once. But the stange UK secondary locators may get through. That’s something that needs fixing I think.

HB/ is no valid prefix. :stuck_out_tongue:
It’s either HB9 for a full license or HB3 for a novice. They use also HB4 for military stations.

There are HAMS who have another callsign from Germany or Malta, how could the system recognise this as one operator?

If I was to fly to Malta and set up /P and somehow work the same activation with a 9H call as I’d worked before leaving Manchester on my home call - then I reckon that’s pretty much two different stations and nothing for the database to worry about.

But then I personally think operating /M from either side of a national border from two different DXCCs is sufficiently distinct enough too, and disagree with Andy that it needs fixing. In any case, I’d say it is such a rare scenario that (a) this happens AND (b) it makes a difference to whether you get your four contacts or not, that it’s not worth what would be disproportionate attention.

A bit like working the same person again, but this time under their old G6 / Intermediate / Foundation / club callsign. Same op, same equipment, but a different station! Many find that hard to swallow, and it is understandable why. But the effort involved in enabling the Database to police such scenarios would be off the scale - and it’s not really harming anyone is it?

Put it this way - I’d rather a fellow SOTA activator who was struggling, acquired their 4th contact via one of these means, than they had to fail the activation.

Exactly mine and Andy’s point. The code should consider it a single station as it strips off prefix and suffix to get to the callsign root and does so currently. My only query is how much that function is used about the place, and as Andy mentioned RSLs for G stations. So, it does that, but there may be a few areas it slips through.

Then they are considered as different stations, which seems right according to the GR and the comments above.

You better put that tongue in because HB is the country identifier for Switzerland and not HB9. You seem to be just wrong.

imagen

imagen

imagen

imagen

73,

Guru

Most of our SOTA activating is based on trust and honesty. If someone gets on air saying he is transmitting from the summit of XX/XX-### nobody but himself knows whether that’s true or not.
We all believe in ourselves honesty and give credit to every activation based on the activator word.
Why can’t we apply the same honesty principle to chasers and ask them to repeat QSO with a certain activator only if they actually change their station (i.e. equipment AND location)?. To me, the fact of having a single chaser giving multiple contacts to an activator by just using different callsigns because that chaser is legally authorised to use more than one callsign is, at some extent, dishonest, as both, the chaser and very likely the activator, know they are not making QSOs with different stations.
On the other hand, going back to my Liechtenstein example in a previous post, let’s imagine that I’m in Italy about to cross the Montblanc tunnel and I chase an activator as I/EA2IF/M. I cross the about 10Km long tunnel and exit in France, where I chase again that activator but this time as F/EA2IF/M. As things are currently treated by the database these 2 contacts would not count as 2 because the country designator preffix will be removed. In my opinion, chasing that activator from the italian side of the Montblanc is totally different to chasing it from the French side.
Exactly the same applies if I’m in France and about to take the Eurostar train to the UK. I’d chase an activator before taking the train as F/EA2IF/M and later, I’d chase that same activator again as M/EA2IF/M.
It’s quite common having geographical barriers such as mountain ranges, rivers or ocean, between 2 different countries (DXCC entities) and chasing from different DXCC entities should count IMHO as different QSOs, just unlike the previously mentionned case of a single operator switching callsigns.
Likewise, if I chase an activator from my base station with my EA2IF callsing, later I chase him again from a SOTA summit, as EA2IF/P and finally again on my journey back home as EA2IF/M, these 3 QSOs are indeed made with 3 totally different stations and I think they should count as 3 QSOs for summit qualifying purposes.

Well, I hope this post will open some thoughts and discussions within the MT and the SOTA community.

73,

Guru

Hi Guru,
all your sources are the ITU prefix and not the country prefix that foreign visitors have to use. Some HB/ activations are already in the database.

I lived and studied in Switzerland an I can tell what the BAKOM (Swiss authority) told me.

From our DARC county list: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ngxcph9jox7gtos/CEPT-Laenderliste.pdf?dl=1

Schweiz
Frequenzen: 135,7–137,8; 472–479 kHz; 1,81–2; 3,5–3,8; 5,3515–5,3665; 7–7,2; 10,1–10,15; 14–14,35; 18,068–18,168; 21–21,45; 24,89–24,99; 28–29,7; 50–52; 144–146; 430–440 MHz; 1,24–1,26 (Sondergenehmigung); 1,26–1,3; 2,3–2,308 (Sondergenehmigung); 2,308–2,312; 2,312–2,45 (Sondergenehmigung); 5,65–5,725 (Sondergenehmigung); 5,725–5,85; 10–10,5; 24–24,25; 47–47,2; 76–81,5; 122,25–123; 134–141; 241–250 GHz; CEPT-Novice-Klasse: 1,81–2; 3,5–3,8; 21–21,45; 28–29,7; 144–146; 430–440 MHz
Leistung: 1000 W (135 kHz: 1 W ERP; 472 kHz: 5 W EIRP; 5 MHz: 15 W EIRP; 50 MHz, 2,3, 5,65 GHz: 100 W; alle Frequenzbereiche oberhalb 24 GHz: 10 W); CEPT-Novice-Klasse: 100 W (144, 430 MHz: 50 W)
Betriebsarten: alle (ATV: ab 430 MHz)
Landeskenner (dem Heimatrufzeichen vorangestellt): HB9/;
CEPT-Novice-Klasse: HB3/
;
Rufzeichenzusätze: /AM Aeronauticalmobilbetrieb, /M Mobilbetrieb, /MM Maritimmobilbetrieb, /P Portabelbetrieb

For the CEPT-Novice I found the primary source though:

Please also check ECC Recommendation (05)06: ECO Domain Redirect

Table 1: CEPT countries
“Call sign prefix(es) to be used in visited countries”
Switzerland HB3
Liechtenstein HBØY

Indeed HB3 seems to be the recommended preffix to be used by CEPT Novice licence holders. But many of us here are not anymore novice and I have always understood the preffix to be used when operating in Switzerland was HB only, without a number.
The DARC country list you pointed to states HB9. I admit you’ve put me in doubt now and I’m trying to find on the Reflector something someone might have written in the past to clarify this point.
I’ll let you know if I find something from IARU, or HB.
73,

Guru

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Here it is:

You are right, John, and HB9 is the right preffix to be used as the Country designator when a non-Swiss ham is transmitting from Switzerland.
I had already read that thread but I confess I had forgotten and as Michael @DB7MM wrote on that thread, having the Swiss association prefix HB instead of HB9 mainly contributes to confusion.

I also think the SOTA summit references should be HB9/ instead of HB/ to avoid confusion.

73,

Guru

1 Like

Nice. I just posted there, maybe a better thread than this one.

I don’t think so. HB9 just indicates the license class. I have no problem with HB a general association prefix but it’s up to any activator to inform himself correct about the required callsign coutry prefixes. If one is not sure, a quick mail to the local authority would eliminate this issue.

Nice discussion - thanks! I did not know in Switzerland I should use HB3 until now…