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S2s exchange


#1
IZ1GDB on I/PM-301

Reminder
You need to exchange Sota details for S2S ON AIR :slight_smile:

This Is important.

The S2S did ask many times but swamped by chasers.

karl


#2

Typical of today Karl they will not stand by and allow an S2S as we always did in the past.
Lets put the amp on and get the points.
I think more infuriating is have a listen to the delay in some while they get the report through Hack Green,not SOTA? Don G0RQL.


#3

Well said. There are so many newbies that it is good once in a while to inform all of us of the proper procedure. I try to wait out the S2S if I can hear him/her calling. One of the problems is not everyone in all the districts can hear the S2S calling.


#4

It also helps if the ‘chased’ S2S station also calls that they want to take a S2S. Presumably all the chasers can hear him! I would hope chasers will give way then.
I’ve also heard occasionally a base station announce that a S2S is trying to get through. Very gentlemanly!


#5

You’d like to think so… but not always in my experience. As usual it’s only a handful of people that cause issues… most people are great and make it all a pleasure.


#6

Problem being, not chasers but the main Sota station NOT exchanging info back to the calling in Sota op and moved straight on to next chaser when requested by the other Sota station whom called in.

Thought make it bit clearer

karl


#7

Hello
Karl, when they call me summit to summit, I only attend and listen summit to summit, other stations have to wait, at the end of the qso.

Greetings EC2AG


#8

Hello
Karl, when they call me summit to summit, I only attend and listen summit to summit, other stations have to wait, at the end of the qso.

Greetings EC2AG


#9

Well I still don’t know what you are on about. What was not given? What did not happen?


#10

I am not certain EU is different, but even so I find SOTA operators to be very considerate compared to many others. If I hear an s2s I standby but sometime I may not hear that. It is no doubt true that when the size of a group increases the general level of skills decreases.
SOTA has become one of my favorite parts of the hobby.


#11

Hi Karl,
I don’t think there’s any obligation to exchange summit refs during a S2S QSO.
In fact, although it’s something most of us activators do, I don’t think it’s necessary when, for instance, both activators have access and can see each other references on SOTAwatch.
I have several times called an activator for S2S after having been listening to him and having already copied his summit ref. previously sent to some other chaser or just in a periodic informative message to all the audience.
What it is indeed mandatory for an S2S QSO to be valid is that both respective summit references are entered to the records we enter or the logs we upload into the SOTA database.
The source where the activators get the summit reference information from is entirely up to them. Be it SOTAwatch (alert or spot), other colleague telling them on air or themself copying it before or after the actual S2S QSO. Even a telephone call after the QSO once both activators are back home would be valid to my understanding.
Best 73,

Guru
P.D. However, I understand and agree with you on the fact that some impatient not listening carefully chasers seem to be unable to wait until a brief QSO like the SOTA ones are, gets fully finished before they start calling QRO over everybody else.

Guru


#12

In my part of the world activators always exchange their summit identification over the air.

Agree it is rude for chasers to start calling in when the stations in contact have not signed off from each other.


#13

Leaving aside the manners of chasers (or activators), for the QSO to be valid, note the following from the General Rules:

QSOs must comprise an exchange of callsigns and signal reports, it is strongly recommended that the summit identifier be given during each contact

i.e. callsigns and report are mandatory but the summit reference is not (but would be nice of course).


#14

True, BUT - all too often the chaser does not know when the QSO is complete, he can only hear one side, the activator, and if he waits for a QRZ - well, very often there isn’t one and the activator goes straight on to work another inaudible station. Regular Chasers are all too aware that often they must judge a balance between risking sounding like a lid, and not getting the contact, when other chasers more favoured by the skip can hear both sides of the preceding contact and can drop in their callsigns at just the right moment to tail-end and snag the next contact.

It may sound rude, but remember that chasers have learned that a lot - and I mean a lot - of activators are not considerate operators, they imagine that everybody can hear everybody else but that just isn’t true.

Of course, calling when the activator is talking is both rude and pointless, and it has to be said that some chasers are prone to this idiocy.


#15

Nothing new there, then.

73 de G3NYY


#16
  • 1 If the chaser cannot hear the activator (s)he MUST not transmit.

  • 2 The chaser must only call when (s)he hears the activator call CQ or invite more calls, any other time, the chaser should remain silent.

  • 3 If the activator fades away and you think (s)he was about to call CQ or for more calls then please apply rule 1.

  • 4 There are only 3 rules.

Maybe there are more rules, please enlighten me if you think there are. Applying the above would make things better, especially for the chasers who can hear the activator.


#17

The point is that too many activators do not make it clear that they are ready for the next caller, they don’t call QRZ, and a 73 is not the same thing as a QRZ (though many chasers assume that it is) because there may well be an inaudible final from the chaser taking place. What is often likely is that there will be an unproductive silence then the activator will launch into an over-long CQ, when a snappy QRZ? would have triggered the next call from better mannered chasers who were waiting for the go-ahead to call.

Its a two way street, Andy, there are boorishly ill-mannered chasers all right, but there are also incompetant activators who fail to keep the chasers informed.

BTW,

But if the chaser CAN hear the activator (s)he MUST NOT transmit, either!:grinning:


#18

I fully agree Brian that activators often do a poor job. I have complained in the past about chasers not behaving but it was talking to some seasoned DXpeditioners who educated me that the activator is in charge. If the activator does not control the pile up and callers then it is the activator’s fault.

The activator must ensure he follows his own rules. If I call for HB9? I must not work anyone who calls out of turn otherwise it will degenerate. I know I should not work stations who call before I have called QRZ or ? and I have been just as bad by working people who have called over the end of the previous QSO. But for the last few weeks, I have been trying to tighten up my own act. It’s far from perfect and I have plenty of bad habits. The only way to get rid of them is to acknowledge them and do it properly.

Just like in an AA meeting, I am Andy and I am a slack activator but it is now 3 activations since I was last slack.


#19

Speaking as a chaser who happens to do a little activating, it is a joy to work an activator who knows what (s)he is doing and controls the pile up properly. It would be invidious to mention callsigns but I bet on reading this other chasers are nodding their heads and thinking of some outstanding activators!

I bow to your experience!


#20

I find that having some experience at contesting helps significantly. Some activations end up being like a contest exchange where the activator needs to be on the ball with technique and be short and accurate etc.