Other SOTA sites: SOTAwatch | SOTA Home | Database | Video | Photos | Shop | Mapping | FAQs | Facebook | Contact SOTA

Radio's and mountains?


#1

I have kept quiet over the past few weeks on the seemingly contentious issues regarding new summits, the awards program and censorship. After Jon’s comments about the reflector and his actions I do now feel happier to make some comments.

I have never felt intimidated by comments or individuals on the reflector. I have however felt that there had been a lack of respect for others views and too many rather caustic one line replies. We are all entitled to our views and are entitled to air them without being “flamed” or mocked. Radio and SOTA is important to me as a hobby and a distraction from life. There are plenty of times and situations in my life that require me to be robust even confrontational. However they are in areas of my life that are vitally important. Radio is for me an escape from all of that. I simply don’t wish to take part in debates on this reflector with the attitude that some individuals have shown.

The MT are in charge here. They make the rules and by our participating in SOTA we agree to them. If we choose to ignore those rules then we must accept the consequences. So is it really a black day when someone is removed for not following the rules of a program they willingly take part in?

Oddly enough I find that to an extent I agree with some of the individuals who choose to air their views, and shoot down opposing views, in such an abraisive manner. I have simply not been prepared to be associated with their stand and methods. I think that an example of the right way to go about these concerns has been shown by Ian G7KXV. He seems able to create well thought out posts that are polite and respectful to others whilst still getting the point across.

Fundamentally I do feel that if the activators require more summits, then more should be added. Whether this be Humps or some other method I do not know. I don’t think this will devalue SOTA or the accomplishments of its participants, in fact it should widen the appeal yet further of a very popular program. I do think though that it will be very difficult to get a level playing field for all associations. That is something we will just have to live with. This is after all for fun. If you live in the Alps it is going to be “easier” to reach MG than if you live in Norfolk. Not much any of us can do about geography I guess!

I agree that the awards system is now less challenging than it was, although I think it is fair to point out that for many SS and MG will still present a sizeable challenge. However what is the solution? Do we keep creating new awards for the top few as time goes by? The football analogy could be used. The top three in the football premiership appear unreachable. (I’m a Spurs supporter but please don’t extend that part of the analogy to me ;-)) Likewise the top chasers and activators will probably never be caught. Could we not simply have endorsements for reaching SuperSS, double or triple MG or activating/chasing all summits in a given area/association? How about a trophy for the most points chased/activated in a year?

I have never had a SOTA qso with Mick HJD. I hope that I will soon and that he can be reinstated to SOTA once he has given the MT the assurances they require.

Mike and John, I will be very sad to see the SOTA news and your input to it on hold. It is a superb read and must take a lot of work. I hope you will reconsider and use the news to help us all discuss these subjects in a calm and pleasant manner. You are both valuable parts of SOTA.

To the MT. If I were you I would be on the verge of throwing in the towel. I hope you won’t. I for one am very grateful for what you have setup. It belongs to you and it is up to you what you do with it. I have no doubt that you will take into account the views of the participants and come up with a reasonable solution.

In the end I feel we have all got a bit too serious, this is all for fun. Its a hobby, not life and death.
I look forward to the weather improving and more points to be had. I did want to make double SS by the end of the bonus period you know…(hint hint)
This is all about radio’s and mountains isn’t it?
Cheers
Q GW3BV


#2

In reply to GW3BV:
Quentin… possibly the most accurate, objective and well thought out summary of the facts at hand that I have seen over the last couple of weeks. Thank you for posting it!

I applaud you and agree with every one of your sentiments. I hope others will take note of your points… and I hope to be able to work you one day from CE-005.

73 Marc GØAZS


#3

In reply to GW3BV:

Hi Q, I said I would refrain from posting on this reflector in support of Mick 2E0HJD, but you posting warrants a reply.

Your post is very well thought out and in my opinion 99% of it is spot on.

I disagree with paragraph 2, in as much that I have NEVER witnessed ANY post on the reflector, from the participants, that could be described as a caustic one lined reply, flamed or mocked. I suppose it’s all down to interpretation by both the author and the reader of the posting.

Yourself and others have described that such postings have been made by “a few”. I think it would be far better if the few were named, basically because they are probably not aware that they are causing offence.

I have had a few heated debates with Brian G8ADD and I hope you don’t mind me mentioning it Brian, but the bottom line is, we both say our piece, clear the air as gentlemen should and carry on chatting and smiling regardless, as friends.

If I am one of “the few” you and others refer to Q please let me know without any fear of a nasty reply.

Consequently, if any posting of mine has caused any individual any hurt or otherwise, then I apologise profusely because no such thing was ever intended.

No doubt about the day when Mick was barred being a Black day for sota, we should all agree on that.

It’s a real pleasure to hear that we can expect more postings from you in the future Q.

73 and the utmost of respect

Mike GW0DSP


#4

In reply to GW3BV:

Thank you Quentin for providing the voice of reason in all this, I too am happy to endorse all of your comments.

And just an observation - if it is now much easier to obtain the awards, it is because, due to the staggering success of SOTA, well beyond the expectations of those who designed it, there are far more people participating. So maybe some overhauling is necessary - the MT appear to be addressing the need for this together with other issues of “levelling the playing field” a bit - lets give them space to to achieve it.

I personally will be taking some radios up some mountains on Saturday - I look forward to having contacts with many of you!

73 de Paul G4MD


#5

In reply to GW3BV:
Quentin,
Well thought out. I wholeheartedly agree. I have been quite stunned by some of the acerbic and dismissive comments that have been made in certain threads.
73 jim


#6

In reply to GW0DSP:

There have indeed been caustic one lined replies, Mike, if you look for them: as an example a remark by a poster was described as a “pile of pants”, but whether this caused offence, or even was intended to cause offence I do not know. Such comments could be like water off a ducks back to one person and put another one into a miff that lasts for days, and there is no way of telling other than a long acquaintance. I was rather stimulated by our “heated debates”, I must say, and whilst thoroughly aeriated at the time bear no resentment! In the end we both love radio and we both love the mountains, and SOTA admirably fills a need that I doubt we were aware of before encountering it.

One point that I disagree with you and others on is that I think to some extent Mick barred himself, he could have given the requested assurance and continued on the reflector but chose otherwise. The important point is that whether he stayed or went, a line has been drawn in the sand, and we all know that we step over it at our own peril. This is a silver lining; flame wars are verboten!

An excellent post, Q!

73

Brian G8ADD


#7

In reply to G8ADD:

Hi Brian, you are spot on with the fact that some ops may see offence in a comment, whereas it’s water off a ducks back to others.

I sort of enjoy our heated debates Brian, because that is all they are debates and I know that deep down we always have a mutual respect for each other. The bottom line is that we are chatting on air the next day with no animosity held whatsoever, at least thats how I see it.

I appreciate your opinion about Mick banning himself but will never agree with you on that score.

Micks comment was “Well that’s a good start” and I think it may possibly have been taken to mean something else, although I haven’t a clue what else it could have meant. I had spoken to Mick earlier and he told me to go and read the good news on the reflector, the fact that 2 MT men were trying to contact Andy in his capacity as GM assoc. manager and mick seemed over the moon that MT were talking to the assoc. managers and doing their best to get the job in hand underway. The next second, Mick is banned, literally for patting MT on the back. I can’t make any sense of it Brian other than Jon saw something else in the post which wasn’t there and acted too quickly in banning Mick. The only other thing that would make sense was if Mick was nasty in a personal email, then the answer would have been to put him on a block sender list in Jons email server.

It’s crazy and in my opinion an injustice which needs putting right.

Sota needs the Mick’s of this world Brian.

73 and I hope to be on a summit either tomorrow or Friday, catch you then.

Mike


#8

In reply to GW0DSP:
go on then one line question,

would that be g/nw-062,

Steve m0sgb


#9

In reply to M0SGB :

Behave yourself you, no such summit as g/nw-062 hi.

My last summit was a 4 pointer and I intend to polish off some of the 2 pointers

  • winter bonuses if this lousy wx will give us a break Steve.

Mike GW0DSP


#10

In reply to GW0DSP:
I apologize to any one in Wales,
my posting should have read GW/NW-062,

I might even give my local hill a try, for the 1 point and blow some cob webs off thursday/friday G/SP-009, let us know your times and might try a s2s, might even have tea and scones again like we did some 2 years ago.
Steve m0sgb


#11

In reply to GW0DSP:

“Micks comment was “Well that’s a good start” and I think it may possibly have been taken to mean something else, although I haven’t a clue what else it could have meant. I had spoken to Mick earlier and he told me to go and read the good news on the reflector, the fact that 2 MT men were trying to contact Andy in his capacity as GM assoc. manager and mick seemed over the moon that MT were talking to the assoc. managers and doing their best to get the job in hand underway. The next second, Mick is banned, literally for patting MT on the back.”

Mike, I’m surprised that you have missed this, although your thought processes are probably coloured by your earlier conversation with Mick.

At the time Mick posted, posts were going back and forth about missing emails and communication problems, and I for one took Micks comment to be a sarcastic reference to these posts as a harbinger of how the MT might conduct its work.

It seems from your post that Mick was innocent of any intention to be sarcastic and the juxtaposition of his post and the other posts led to an unfortunate interpretation of his remark; quite possibly he didn’t even see the communication glitch posts appearing, quite a lot can happen in a thread whilst you are blinded by the reply page. I wonder if Mick realises how his post has been misinterpreted?

Sota indeed needs the Micks of this world. In more ways than one. We need enthusiastic and generous participants. We also need gadflies to keep us from settling into a rut. But…we also need moderation to prevent stimulation from degrading into destructive sarcasm, as it so often does on other reflectors.

73

Brian


#12

In reply to G8ADD:

Thank you very much Brian, I never saw it that way and never would have, but now you have explained I can see where Jon or any one else may have possibly got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

This is turning out even more tragic than I ever thought. I swear to you and everyone else who reads this, that Mick 2E0HJD did have that conversation with me and posted the remark in honest good faith and actually intended it in praise of MT. Now it starts to make sense to me.

Jon if you are reading this, you are probably aware that I have emailed MT on this issue, but I have to ask you once more to review the situation now that this has come to light.

I believe a genuine mistake in interpretation was made and needs correcting.

73 Mike

P.S. If this decision can be reversed at least everyone concerned knows where they stand now, so I don’t envisage any further problems.


#13

In reply to G8ADD:
Re:-
“At the time Mick posted, posts were going back and forth about missing emails and communication problems, and I for one took Micks comment to be a sarcastic reference to these posts as a harbinger of how the MT might conduct its work.”

Looks like there has been a big misunderstanding here, something that can happen all too easily on reflectors such as this, newsgroups, usenet etc - probably due to the short and chatty nature of many of the messages that get sent. It can be difficult at times to understand the true meaning of what has been written.

I saw the messages that were being sent out about the same time that Mick sent his, but certainly didn’t think his comments were in the least sarcastic. However now that it has been pointed out, I can see how they could possibly have been taken that way, although I personaly still cannot agree with that
interpretation. I was also unaware of his conversation with GW0DSP so that has no bearing at all on how I interpreted his comments.

Looks to me like a complete misunderstanding that should be sorted out asap.

Let’s all hope that it gets sorted soon.

See you all on the air soon - but not this weekend unless the weather improves
!! Will be after some more winter bonus points soon.

73, Keith G8HXE.