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Questions about the rules


#1

Hi fellows
I am new in SOTA (2 weeks) and enjoy chasing very much. While I am waiting for some ordered equipment to activate my first summit, I try to make plans for the activation.
So far I have two questions:

  1. I understand that I cannot use my dog to carry radio equipment (in a pack). But can I use her to carry water, food and other things that are not specificly necessary for the activation, but nice to have?

  2. Some of the summits in my area (LA/RL…) are on small islands and can be most easily approached by boat. It will only be 100-200 meters of walk to reach the top from the landing point. May I use a motorboat or must I row?

Regards and cuagn
Mike


#2

In reply to LA5SAA:

Welcome to SOTA, Mike.

Using a dog is a new one for me! I suppose that if you can’t claim the dog is a member of the activating team then it cannot carry any equipment: I don’t see any reason why it can’t carry provisions.

Using a motorboat to reach an island is equivalent to using a car to reach a hill. As long as you don’t operate from the car on the summit the activation is valid, so I suppose as long as you don’t operate from a boat the activation is valid, not that anyone would drag a boat to the summit!

It sounds like your activations will have some unique features, let us know how you get on!

73

Brian G8ADD


#3

In reply to G8ADD:
Thanks a lot for the quick answer, Brian. Sounds reasonable… Pity - my dog can carry up to 8 kg for me - and she likes to be important :-).
Yes, most of the summits in this area seem to be really challenging. If you bother, have a look on the google map, e.g. LA/RL-018 (which is nearest to my home). This summit gives only one point, but the approach is as hopeless as for most of the other RL summits. It is only about 600 meters from the road, but there is no path to it. Steep area, with tight wood and big stone blocks close to close. You cannot walk, you must crawl and climb from zero to 245 meters. I think, very young and trained people would need 8 hours or so to get up - if it is possible to get up at all. Trees and rock blocks all the time close to close, also on the top. And probably a poor take off for HF/VHF.
So far I have identified 4 point 1 summits that I can make. These are located on small islands - and I will probably start with RL-030 when I have received the ordered mast.
The other summits: Should we consider to give more than one point for summits that are extremely difficult to approach? Just to stimulate activation.
So far, none of the RL summits have been activated.
Regards
Mike


#4

In reply to DL4MFM:

… and my YL is part of the team - she is carrying what we need for a coffe break on summits :slight_smile:


#5

In reply to DL4MFM:
Well, yes, Mario, in my opinion a dog is a four-legged human who can’t quite talk…but I’m not sure I’d trust my dog with my rig, she’s too active! Mind you, she’d probably send CW better than me - well, she couldn’t possibly be worse!

73

Brian G8ADD


#6

In reply to LA5SAA:
Another way to carry the rig…

73 Alain F6ENO


#7

In reply to F6ENO:

In reply to LA5SAA:
Another way to carry the rig…
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=pX2r0ddUqsw&feature=related

73 Alain F6ENO

Anyone recognising themselves … :o)

Peter


#8

In reply to G8ADD:
Hi Brian

Perhaps if the dog carries the radio you should
sign ‘stroke D(og)’ !!

best 73

Dave G0ELJ


#9

In reply to G0ELJ:

Perhaps if the dog carries the radio you should
sign ‘stroke D(og)’ !!

Well after carrying all your gear I would give him a stroke, a pat and a doggy treat too! :slight_smile:

73 Marc G0AZS (currently K1UG/9)


#10

The GR state:

The method of (final) ascent must be person-powered.

and

All equipment must be carried to the summit by the activating team.

(Not direct quotes, just from memory).

This surely means that walking to the summit accompanied by a dog that is carrying your radio gear is acceptable? You would consider your dog as part of the team wouldn’t you? I considered Jimmy as part of my “team” before he was licensed, and he virtually always carried some part of the station or other! (Hope I haven’t just rendered about 300 SOTA activations as invalid!).

I think the trick is not to attempt to ride, or be pulled by your dog all the way to the summit!

Tom


#11

In reply to M1EYP:

Take it a step further, Tom. I consider my dog to be a person. She may not be a human person, but she is a person. Does this permit her to carry the rig? I am starting to think it does!

73

Brian G8ADD


#12

In reply to G8ADD:

I’m inclined to agree. If an activator takes his or her dog along, then it most certainly is part of the team. Our General Rules do not specify that all team members must be human, so Fido can carry the rig.

Where it, perhaps, becomes more contentious, is when a team member is a horse, or even an elephant (not in the UK obviously!!!). Such a beast of burden could carry a significant amount of radio equipment, especially if pulling a cart!

I suspect that the “spirit of SOTA” would be brought into play again …

73 de Les, G3VQO


#13

In reply to G8ADD:
speaking about rules Brian,
What happened to your ruling re using the spots for alerts? I see you allowed one which was 12 hours in advance!! Does the rule still stand or is it just another example of two sets of rules dependant on the op in question? After all you set the rule.
Clarification would be great.

Regards

Lee


#14

In reply to G8ADD:

Take it a step further, Tom. I consider my dog to be a person. She may
not be a human person, but she is a person. Does this permit her to
carry the rig? I am starting to think it does!

I am inclined to agree Brian, though ultimately it is a matter of individual conscience and what we want to get out of SOTA. A dog carrying batteries to facilitate an extended activation for example would certainly be of benefit to more than just the activator.

I think I will take along my Barn Owl to carry an extra pencil… so I can log the pile up on 23cms without any worries about the graphite breaking.

73, Gerald


#15

In reply to M1EYP:

Hi Tom and all the others. Thanks a lot for all comments and also for the humoristic approaches. I enjoyed the answers…
Well, the original rules (I just found them)
http://www.sota.org.uk/docs/SOTA%20Activator%20guidelines.pdf
say: “All equipment must be carried BY YOU to the summit”.
Of course - my dog will be a member of the team. But does that help?
Regards
Mike


#16

In reply to DL4MFM:
You are right, of course, Mario.
I just wanted to clarify if I could make use of my dogs capacity to carry additional radio equipment for future extended operations. Nice to know for the planning…
By the way, I have now collected all necessary gear for operating from my first summit, the mast arrived today. Unfortunately we get “long time” visitors tomorrow, I cannot leave before earliest on sunday afternoon - otherwise the xyl would get mad :-(.
Thank you for our recent qso’s.
See u again soon
73 Mike, ex DJ8EP


#17

In reply to DL4MFM:
Good news: Got a telephone call - the visitors will NOT come this week :slight_smile: Now the final planning starts. WX forecast is fine from thursday to sunday, next week rain: http://www.yr.no
Worked 7 new summits today, but unfortunately I did not hear you. I was away from home from 0800 to 1100.
Mike


#18

In reply to G8ADD:

Quote:
speaking about rules Brian,
What happened to your ruling re using the spots for alerts? I see you allowed one which was 12 hours in advance!! Does the rule still stand or is it just another example of two sets of rules dependant on the op in question? After all you set the rule.
Clarification would be great.

Regards

Lee :

Unquote:

If you wish to email me the response Brian, that’s fine, but clarification would be appreciated.

Cheers
Lee
M0LMP


#19

In reply to M0LMP:
Sorry to keep you waiting for a reply, Lee, I’ve been out since lunchtime and have just got back.

I can’t find the Spot that you are refering to, I assume it was an error that has been corrected.

The rule stands as stated, a Spot is for an activation in progress but can be posted up to two hours before the intended summit time, anything further ahead must be posted in Alerts.

Two sets of rules dependant on the op in question? That’s not very diplomatic, Lee, is it? You know I don’t work like that.

73

Brian G8ADD


#20

In reply to DL4MFM:
Thanks, OM. I must have missed it, if I had seen it I would have moved it to Alerts. As you say, not a problem, but Spots gets so busy sometimes that it is best to move out things that shouldn’t be there!

73

Brian G8ADD