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Power Line Adapters Petition


#1

I received the following in an email…

You may have received this petition already if you haven’t please sign & pass it on as it is important to the survival of the shortwave bands & amatuer radio.

Those who receive RadCom will be aware of the problems that PLA’s(Power Line Adapters) are causing to Amateur Radio and Short Wave Listening.

There is a e-petition to 10 Downing Street which asks for these
devices to be banned. Currently there are 3,325 signatures.

The petition closes on 11th February 2009.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/SaveShortwave/

So please vote now. Every vote counts, and it only takes 5 mins.

73, Mike GW0DSP


#2

In reply to GW0DSP:

Done. Thanks, Mike.

73

Brian G8ADD


#3

In reply to GW0DSP:

Every vote counts

Please forgive my scepticism while I stop laughing. Did I miss the transition from a parliamentary democracy to an interactive democracy?

Currently there are 3,325 signatures

Only sixty million nine hundred seventy two thousand or so signatures needed before anyone in government takes any notice of us then.

Still no harm in trying just as long as I don’t start getting spam from Gordon Brown.

;0) Steve GW7AAV


#4

In reply to GW7AAV:

As usual, sarcasm and negativity from you Steve.

It’s because of attitudes like yours that nothing will ever change.

OOPS, nearly forgot the obligatory;0)

Mike GW0DSP


#5

In reply to GW0DSP:

Don’t worry Mike, I’ve ordered a BT PLT broadband system for Steve’s next door neighbour. Oh, and applied for a new smart meter for Steve’s electricity, just in case he might like to listen to HF :wink:

73, Gerald


#6

In reply to G4OIG:

I thought Steve would have really appreciated the petition, considering the problem he has with not hearing many activators;0)

73, Mike


#7

In reply to GW0DSP:

As usual, sarcasm and negativity from you Steve.

…and those are just my good points. Negativity that is brought on by the constant betrayal of the British public by the very people who they choose as servants of the people and the fact that they forget as soon as they are elected that they are servants of the people and proceed to presume to rule over us.

The pen is mightier than the sword so they say and without sarcasm am I not impotent to press for change as no one listens when one tries to be serious but at least a few listen when you make them laugh.

I seriously hope that power line network adapters along with BLP (Broadband over power lines) are confined to the dustbin of history very soon but I suspect that no one is taken any notice what so ever of any petitions at http://petitions.number10.gov.uk especially after all the previous petitions based on unfounded rumours and speculation that radio amateurs have been asked to sign lately. If you cry wolf too often then no one will listen when you have a genuine concern like this one. Even RSGB telling everyone the last load of rubbish about 70cms was not true did not stop the emails or people registering their support.

Steve GW7AAV


#8

In reply to GW7AAV:

I suspect that no one is taken any notice what so ever
of any petitions at http://petitions.number10.gov.uk

I agree with you Steve, but I’ve still signed the petition. I’ve also joined the UKQRM Yahoo group who seem to be making the right moves. If we stand by and do nothing, then we have no right to complain when it does not go our way and HF SOTA is a thing of the past. No use being on a hill when no-one can hear you.

Might I suggest that anyone who has not heard what PLT from the BT Vision system sounds like that they should take a look at http://www.ispreview.co.uk/news/EkFkpkyAZEyeTlmeFJ.html . I understand the receiver was on AM mode, but you can imagine what it sounds like on SSB.

73, Gerald


#9

In reply to G4OIG:

Sounds similar to the QRM I heard last Christmas in OH. It was impossible to work UK activators on 40 m with the S5 noise.

These EMC issues should be regulated already in the EU parliament. ON4WF told me that he had been doing some lobbying there. He was organizing the ARISS event for us in 2005. It is quite bad if the devices with CE mark produce such high QRM level and do not confirm with the EMC standards. There is really no reason to block the shortwaves to anybody, whether the person is a radio amateur or a simple listener. I think ARRL did the right thing from the beginning by their clearly stated worry of the interference to the shortwaves.

73, Jaakko OH7BF/F5VGL


#10

In reply to F5VGL:

Hi Jaacko,

It seems like there have been a few backhanders paid somewhere along the line since the equipment used in the BT system (and that of another manufacturer I believe) has the CE mark, but causes severe interference. The problem is set to become worse as non-compliant equipment now appears to be for sale on eBay.

While representations are being made to the appropriate authorities in the UK, there is the worry that they may not be willing to act in cases where the equipment is CE marked since anything “approved” by the EU seems to override our national laws. If nothing is done to make all PLT equipment illegal, then eventually we will all be doing SOTA on VHF / UHF.

73, Gerald


#11

In reply to G4OIG:

I was just reading the Region 1 EMC working group pages

http://www.iaru-r1.org/EMCWG.htm

Looks like they have been doing some work on this issue already. Anyway there is an email address to report interference cases.

73, Jaakko OH7BF/F5VGL


#12

In reply to F5VGL:

You can now self-certify CE marks. So you can now buy electronic equipment (computer PSU for example) which has a CE mark but would fail any testing as it has had the pennies worth of filtering components ommitted. If you look inside you can see the spaces on the PCB for the filter components and where they have been linked out. Make 100000 PSUs/month and save 5p on each one adds up to real money quickly.

CE marking is a joke in the UK as nothing is done to enforce the requirements.

OFCOM? Professional comedians run by people with degrees in marketing. Their interest is in removing regulations not enforcing them. Look at their chairwoman, Collet Brown…

“She began her career as an economist at the Department of Trade and Industry and subsequently worked at the Independent Broadcasting Authority, the Securities and Investment Board, as Chief Executive of the Personal Investment Authority and as Executive Chairman of the Fleming Funds Management.”

What the hell does a bean counter know about communications? Pathetic.

Remember the last 10 years have all been about freeing business from regulation. As such EMC is just ignored. Mustn’t do anything to impede business must we.

Andy
MM0FMF


#13

In reply to MM0FMF:

I agree wholeheartedly Andy - Pen Pushers Rule OK! Oh what a lovely world we live in. It’s a wonder we ever get anything done.

Thank God for those beautiful hills - somewhere to escape to, somewhere to forget all that.

73, Gerald


#14

In reply to MM0FMF:

I understand your frustration. In broader sense radio amateurs belong to the category of science and education. The big public understands the problem of light pollution from big cities and that it makes observation of distance stars more difficult. The electromagnetic pollution is similar problem for radio astronomy and other scientific programs using these frequencies. I see the educational radio amateur hobby in the same context. Perhaps we should try to increase the awareness of the general public on the electromagnetic pollution? It is not visible like the light pollution, but its presence can be demonstrated with radio receivers.

73, Jaakko OH7BF/F5VGL


#15

In reply to GW7AAV:

Come join us on the Grumpies Net Steve - 3,718kHz +/-QRM, H24 service!! LOL

G0NXA often in the chair…

73 Graham G4FUJ


#16

In reply to GW0DSP:

Hi Mike,

we have lot´s of PLC-Infos at the web-side of DARC
(our national radio-society):
http://www.darc.de/aktuell/plc/

Mostly written in German, but a few of them in English:

Scroll down at the left and you can listen to some examples:
Beispiel 1, 2, and more (all AM).

If you have PLC in your environments you enjoy SOTA even more,
because of the “rubbish-free” bands :wink:

Vy73 Fritz DL4FDM,HB9CSA


#17

A response to this is now on the Web at

http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page19025

I don’t suppose anyone will surprised by the reply.

Stewart
G0LGS


#18

In reply to G0LGS:

yes got my response too

Alistair gw0vmz


#19

In reply to GW0DSP:
Mike I think there is no point in these petitions - .gov.uk just ignore them.
The correct way (and only one likely to succeed) is included in the message below ( to the moderators I’m sure there will be no problem quoting this to reach a larger audience.)

"Hello Steve and others ,
I don’t often chip in , but here goes.
If you had been at the RSGB AGM in Newcastle, (like me) or watching the live streaming video, courtesy of BATC you would have been able to see the reply to questions about PLT , homeplug etc.

The EMC Board member made it clear that Ofcom is very much with us on this one and very grateful for the information and technical support of RSGB/Amateur Radio etc. What comes across is that they are not the ultimate authority and that in order to help us, Ofcom need good solid evidence to go with to their master, the successor to the DTI and then on to Government.
A show of hands in the room indicated that around a quarter of people had heard the interference , in one form or another, but that only one or possibly 2 had ever complained . No one had ever asked for a “case number” when reporting the interference.

I understood that there is a report form or details , either on the EMC web site – you will need to check that info.

The EMC member was most insistence that those reporting it, get a case number – similar to a police crime number. This is THE statistic that matters, as these are the only recorded/ accountable events . I believe he said that there have only been around 100 such official reports and that around 40-48 are/ have been worked on, by a very small number of Ofcom engineers (they got rid of most of them years ago and are now recruiting again I see) The topic is always on the agenda for the quarterly liaison meeting with Ofcom. RSGB /EMC needs to know your case number, in order to progress/update/press them to deal your complaint…

I believe that recorded, streaming video of the AGM will be available soon so it may be on there for you to see
For my part, I thought the stance was pretty clear, I just didn’t remember the precise detail - Satureday nights dinner was a good night, maybe that’s why!

Kind regards
Richard G3UGF"

Roger G4OWG


#20

In reply to GW0VMZ:

I think the response is disgusting quite honestly! Maybe every radio enthuiast should lodge a complaint about interference from PLT and OFCOM will then get tired of investigating the many complaints, and see just what a problem PLT causes.

It seems like the powers that be haven’t even investigated the problem, they’ve just looked at the legislation and thought they had the bases covered. What good is legislation if there is no penalty for non compliance?!

73 and low noise to everyone!

Colin