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MW-032 Upper Park


#21

Mike,

It is up to the landowner/estate manager if there is a limit to the number of folks that attend. If there is a limit, then I will offer places to the first howsoever people that said on here that they wanted to participate, with those that followed in an ordered reserve list. That in mind, the suggestion to ‘make it count’, ie do a good job, respect the conditions and the property, and make a significant sum for a local charity of the estate’s choosing (yes, I tend to agree with that idea, but will keep the ‘individually nominated charities’ one in reserve just in case) is a good one, as it will hopefully leave the door open for a repeat for future activators.

Walt,

Money-making doesn’t come into it. It will be raising money for charity. And it isn’t setting a precedent or opening a can of worms - Jimmy and I actively raised funds for Macclesfield Friends for Leisure (an organisation that supports teenagers with disabilities in mainstream social and leisure activities) as we walked the Pennine Way (including 11 SOTA activations) in 2006. Friends, colleagues and family donated, but the bulk of the £1400 raised came from (a) drinkers in Macclesfield pubs, and (b) radio amateurs - SOTA participants, and people at the Norbreck rally.

Surely this would be a good thing, and would reflect SOTA in a good light?

Anyway, all I want at the minute is expressions of interest (bona fide ones with genuine intention to take part AND do some fundraising) and viable fundraising suggestions from those people. I will put together a formal proposal, and submit it to the estate manager when appropriate.

Thanks for the interest.

Tom M1EYP


#22

In reply to M1EYP:

If there is a limit, then I will offer places to the first howsoever people that said on here that they wanted to participate, with those that followed in an ordered reserve list.

Naturally I would ask for Paul G4MD to be on the list as he like me has just this one to complete Wales. Paul is working away from home at the moment, so is probably unlikely to pick up on this thread without prompting.

the suggestion to ‘make it count’, ie do a good job, respect the conditions and the property… as it will hopefully leave the door open for a repeat for future activators.

Surely this would be a good thing, and would reflect SOTA in a good light?

Exactly the same as for Swinside G/LD-057 and Myarth GW/SW-035 where we now have the means to obtain the appropriate consent to access the hill. :slight_smile:

73, Gerald G4OIG


#23

No worries Gerald. Paul was actually one of the first to book on when I explained my idea to him in a pub in Macc a few weeks ago!

Tom M1EYP


#24

In reply to M1EYP:

Yes, he said he had met up with you… and that a curry might be on the cards. Will have to get myself a job in Manchester so I can join you. I understand that the Macc curry house surpasses all!

73, Gerald G4OIG


#25

In reply to G4OIG:

I didn’t expect the Spanish Inquisition! I’ll do what I advise others to do first and read through the archives next time. Less cans of worms opened that way. :slight_smile:

Andy
M0FMF


#26

Congratulations to Dave M0TUB and Mike 2E0YYY who had something of a major breakthrough today regarding activating Upper Park GW/MW-032. And I’m not talking about their Wouxuns getting desensitized! I have been speaking to Dave on the 'phone this evening.

They managed to find a member of the ground staff before accessing, and after a detailed discussion, were granted access to the summit. Furthermore, future activations are feasible! These would be in summer 2012, during the shooting close season, but only by prior arrangement.

Arrangements and date(s) will need to be carefully coordinated, as there may only be one or two dates made available by the estate. Furthermore, prospective activators should not contact the estate directly, as this could confuse matters. Dave and myself will organise something for next summer, and will announce it on here when we have any further information. In the meantime, please do not contact the estate with an access request, or attempt to access this summit for SOTA purposes. Expect some news around March/April 2012.

Following on from my earlier thoughts about charitable donations, the estate does indeed have a worthwhile nominated charity, and a contribution of £25 per activator has been mentioned.

Congratulations and thanks to Dave for cracking this one - many of us have tried and failed! Stay tuned for further information… :wink:

Tom M1EYP


#27

In reply to M1EYP:
Congratulations to Dave and Mickey for their activation.

The thought of setting a precident of say £25 to climb a hill does not sit easily with me. If I pay one man to climb his hill - will I have to pay another to climb his?

This should not include paying at all. Simple. It goes against what I think being out in the country and SOTAing is all about.

Access should be free. If we cannot get access from a landowner then the hill is simply ignored. There are plenty others!

What about the folk who in this general economic doldrum we find ourselves in, simply can’t afford to be spending a quarter of their weeks shopping bill just to activate a hill? And why should they!

There needs to be a principal set here - from the MT.

Surely a better and more forward thinking approach would be to get the said landlords interested in the benefits of radio and of SOTA, of supporting their local communities and schools programmes by opening up their private hill once in a while, and to be aware that this hobby of ours is a not-for-profit past-time and just relies on the good will of folk all over the world, rather than just doing the easy thing and paying for it…

The start of the slippery slope?


#28

In reply to G1STQ:

In principle I couldn’t agree more. My generation venerated the mass trespassers that by their sacrifice bought us a freedom in the hills that is certainly envied elsewhere. Charging for access would be an enormous retrograde step, and reduce the sacrifice of the mass trespassers to futility. However, we are talking here about an insignificant tump in private grounds, and we are talking about a donation to charity to open up these grounds on a clearly defined occasion or occasions, presumably for the benefit of activators and chasers that have an urge to complete a set. There is no indication as far as I am aware that the landowner will profit from these occasions. Therefore I do not feel that such an event would violate my principles.

73

Brian G8ADD


#29

In reply to G1STQ:

There needs to be a principal set here - from the MT.

Nothing to do with us. If people wish to make a donation to a charity to satisfy the demands of a landowner then that’s their decision. If the minimum donation is too rich for you then you can be happy knowing that you wont be paying. The limits you place on gaining access may be negligible to others.

Hills are listed in the Association Manual if they meet the criteria of the association. It’s nothing to do with the MT as to whether you can get physical access or not. Access may be limited because of religious significance, military installations, GOMLs, wildlife, commercial radio installations etc. Any of those limits may be lifted at any point in the futures so the summit is always listed.

EDIT: Brian’s post and mine crossed. But he’s right in that the payment is a donation to a charity and not to the landowner.

Andy
MM0FMF


#30

The land in question is strictly private. The landowner has no obligation to grant access, and in virtually every case does not. Nothing has been set yet and discussions continue.

But please bear in mind that access to this one summit has always been difficult, and is only really becoming a possibility since we found out about the charity that the estate supports. The suggested amount has not come from the estate, but from Dave M0TUB and myself. We judge this to be about right for what those who really want to activate this summit will be prepared to pay, while making any event worthwhile in terms of supporting the estate’s nominated charity.

The amount is NOT set. It is what will be proposed in a meeting that we hope to hold around March/April next year. Ultimately, activators will have the choice of whether to donate in order to activate, or to not activate. Perhaps not ideal or comfortable for everyone, but a significantly better situation than has been the case.

In your case John (G1STQ), you have an enormous amount of unique activating to do before you need to start worrying about reaching the summit of Upper Park!

Brian is correct that the estate will earn nothing from this concept. Cheques will be made out to the charity concerned, which I will reveal as and when appropriate.

Tom M1EYP


#31

Surely a better and more forward thinking approach would be to get the said landlords interested in the benefits of radio and of SOTA, of supporting their local communities and schools programmes by opening up their private hill once in a while…

Actually John, most of that is pretty much on the mark. What Dave M0TUB did yesterday was manage to get the estate interested in the SOTA programme, with a view to opening up the private hill once in a while to support a local charity. So perhaps you are not a million miles away from the way this is going after all.

Tom M1EYP


#32

In reply to G1STQ:

The thought of setting a precident of say £25 to climb a hill does not
sit easily with me.

Me neither. However, it was that or swim to Bardsey :frowning:

The start of the slippery slope?

You may be confused here. I think you are possibly referring to Callow Hill direct.

73

Richard
G3CWI


#33

In reply to All:

Tom

Thanks for your comments - I was pleased to have the opportunity to clear some of the detail with you on the phone last night. Mike and I have been very lucky that our petulance has produced the outcome it has. With hindsight this could have been very different and perhaps even detrimental.
We were fortuitous in that we didn’t just manage to find ‘a member of the ground staff’ but the Estate Manager himself!
He explained that the Summit of Upper Park is central to the Powys Pheasant Shoot and as such is an integral part of their business. Access to the summit is severely restricted due to the danger of both shooting accidents occurring and the stock of pheasants being disturbed.
As John G1STQ highlighted, and Tom referred to in his last post, we spent some considerable time educating him about Radio Amateur activities and the SOTA program in particular. He was very receptive and gave me his assurance that he would look favourably upon a request for an organised party/parties to access the summit during an appropriate window of opportunity, during the closed pheasant season. No mention of payment to the Estate was ever made or requested, however, I did suggest that members of our SOTA community may be willing to make a donation to the Estate charity. Whilst all will not agree, my personal belief is that Andy’s reply above covers the point well.

At the end of the day, although we see Upper Park as a SOTA summit, we must respect that it is also a private business. As Tom has indicated, negotiations are ongoing and details will be posted as and when we have any further information. We anticipate an approach, agreed with the Estate Manager, around mid March to April - just before the closed season commences.
We will only be able to say “we have cracked it” when the first party is QRV from the summit. Suffice to say real & positive progress has been made.

I suppose it will be a bit like a pile up - handled properly, every body will get through in the end.

Regards

Dave & Mike
M0TUB & 2E0YYY


#34

In reply to M1EYP:

In your case John (G1STQ), you have an enormous amount of unique activating to do before you need to start worrying about reaching the summit of Upper Park!

That’s not very friendly.


#35

In reply to M1EYP:

< We judge this to be about right for what those who really want to activate this summit will be prepared to pay…

Right on Tom! I’ve been waiting for this summit to become available since 11th March 2010 when I activated Rhobell Fawr GW/NW-022. Still I can’t complain - there’s been plenty of excellent summits in England and Scotland that have kept me busy. :slight_smile:

Well done Dave and Mike for moving things on.

73, Gerald G4OIG


#36

Opening up an old thread.

I think I might have found an answer to this… but you’ll need your running shoes and it probably needs some pre-arranged chasers.

It appears an organised annual 10Km trail run goes very close to the summit. I suspect (although I can’t confirm this for sure) that it will take the track that tops out at about SJ 1907 0528. The reason I say this is that someone on the hill bagging site has said

"The Powis 10K run (organised by the Dolly Mixtures running group) passes close by the summit and a very small detour bags it but loses you a few race positions!! "

That would put you in the AZ while still on the course.

Whip out the 2m handheld as you run over the high point, 4 QSO (or even 1 if you are not bothered by the point) and done!

I’m going to start training for next year… :slight_smile: Hope the race runs in 2018. Looks like it is in May.

http://www.rundolliesrun.org.uk/10.html


#37

Surely the slower you run, the better?


#38

Ha ha… that was said very firmly tongue in cheek… me and running don’t mix… but I reckon I could give a few people a good race with my uphill walking pace… then I’ll just stop at the high point to “catch my breath” for a while… :slight_smile:


#39

Joking aside, if 5 activators were to go on the run, then as along as only one activator is in the AZ at any time, by contacting each other they would all qualify the summit. Unfortunately May looks like it could be in my rehabilitation period post surgery and “running” would be off the menu… but do they require a race Marshall in the AZ?


#40

I have no problem with that at all. I don’t think I shall be training except for the post of tail-ender. I am sure we should be able to come up with at least five “runners”. I have the kit (and a 2m HH); just lack the energy.

I notice that the link is for the 2016 run and wonder if it is actually an annual event.

73,
Rod