HAS SSB Died

Old Reflector
21

In reply to GW0DSP:

What’s the point Brian? If a chaser or activator is a ssb only op,
he/she will earn their award by that means just as a cw only or mixed
mode op would under the present system, I don’t see a real need for a
seperate trophy for each mode.

The point here, Mike, is that it is an encouragement to an activator or chaser to switch modes after achieving a trophy in the chosen mode, or to operate in both modes to work towards both trophies simultaneously. For those who like to collect trophies or sheepskins it could possibly be a potent inducement. I put it forward because it is the only workable inducement I can think of, since I, too, adhere to the tenet that the activator is king (see my first post in this thread) and therefore we need inducements to tempt the CW only people onto phone and vice versa.

One thing to bear in mind is that on a first phone contact a station new to the concept of SOTA is more likely to get a clear description of what the program is all about than on a first CW contact, therefore I suggest that phone operations are better recruiters than CW operations. This is a good reason to keep the phone scene in good health (not that I am suggesting that it is presently in poor health!)

73

Brian G8ADD

22

In reply to MM0FMF:
I would urge any of you Phone only guys and girls to just learn the Code.
26 letters + 10 numbers = 36 (rather fewer than any language used on the planet which each contains thousands of different words).
The LF Beacon band is a great part of the spectrum for those just starting out - (most navigational beacons TX very QRS between 300-450Khz) - put a random length of wire into the antenna socket, tune down to the band and take a listen for them (each has 1, 2 or 3 characters) - try and identify them and check your results against this great website:-
http://www.classaxe.com/dx/ndb/reu/index.php
A really constructive way of learning the code.
When out anywhere translate any object into CW - tree, road, car, persons name, etc etc - live the code and your ‘transmit’ speed will soon match your receive speed.
CW will never be a hurdle if you set out to enjoy it.
So, enjoy!
73 Cris
GM4FAM

23

In reply to G0TRB:

Hello Roger

Might not the perception that CW rules be just that, a perception or posssibly a reflection on current conditions at the bottom of the sunspot cycle.

A brief trawl of the database leagues results in the following statistics :-

Activators numbers

G - 189 SSB 45 CW
GW - 26 SSB 6 CW
GM - 25 SSB 11 CW
DM - 151 SSB 56 CW
DL - 14 SSB 10 CW
HB - 22 SSB 24 CW

Chasers numbers

G - 233 SSB 60 CW
GW - 20 SSB 7 CW
GM - 18 SSB 8 CW
DM - 112 SSB 65 CW
DL - 9 SSB 6 CW
HB - 31 SSB 26 CW

As you can see, hardly a resounding CW majority.

Also well to the east of the M6/M5 divide.

73’s
David/G4CMQ

24

In reply to G8ADD:

Fair comment Brian, but I suspect that once a cw man always a cw man and vice versa.

I disagree with you on the concept that cw doesn’t attract as many to Sota as fone does. Maybe in the case of the newly licenced in the UK where probably 2m-fm is the most used and cw doesn’t yet exist to them, but not neccesarily so, especially overseas.

73

Mike GW0DSP

25

In reply to G4CMQ:

Well, that’s an eye opener David, good work, thanks, there you have it, we need more CW ops to come into line with the greater number of SSB ops.

73
Mike GW0DSP

26

In reply to GM4FAM:

I’m sure you are right, Cris, as this is something like the advice given elsewhere, but for some of us (fortunately few of us but all the more frustrating for that) it is not just a matter of “learning” the code, see my post of 11.24.

One of the chief frustrations of my attempts to master the code is the assumption made by so many people that I am not trying!

73

Brian G8ADD

27

Nice bit of research David, which illustrates your conclusion well.

People choose their bands and modes according to their preferences, and sometimes to conditions. The availability of endorsed trophies will not change that, I believe.

I do SSB, CW and FM. Jimmy does SSB and FM. Some do CW and SSB. Some do just SSB. Some do just FM. Do we really need extra variations on the awards to get some of the HF CW only to do SSB as well? I think not. If the extra awards were available, would some of the HF CW only begin to do SSB? I think not!

BTW, the only reason that SSB might “appear” to be in decline, is simply because of the many additional CW activations put on by activators in the European associations, including the newer ones. The actual amount of SSB activations hasn’t declined, but the amount of CW activations has rocketed. So the overall proportion of activations on SSB is down, but not the actual number of them. My son Jimmy M3EYP finds himself rather busy at weekends chasing activators, and he doesn’t do CW. He’s certainly busier chasing then I was in my more avid chasing days (2003-2005) - when everything was on 2m FM, SSB was growing slowly, and CW SOTA was almost unheard of (except for that chap across town who makes aerials).

This is hobby stuff, people’s free time, and they’ll do exactly what they want with it. Moany arguments of the kind that it’s not fair, or it signals the demise of the SOTA Programme, are never ever going to change people from their preferred operating style.

What can bring about change, is inspiration and motivation. I’ve been there! I was quite a committed 2m FM only activator for a long time, and saw no need nor value in trying other aspects of amateur radio, so long as I made my contacts and got my points. But eventually, looking at what other people were doing and achieving, inspired me to experience the following:

Buy a proper portable transceiver
Take a beam antenna
Try 2m SSB (over a year into my SOTA activating before I did have a proper go!)
Try HF
Become a member of the YHA
Do walks that were considerably longer than the minimum required
Try microwave - 10GHz
Learn CW
Walk the Pennine Way
Do night-time activations
Add gear for 6m and 70cm
Do contests

SOTA and the people within it have inspired me to try all those things. I doubt I would have done any of them if I had been nagged to do them.

So - what does SSB actually offer as a benefit to those we want to motivate to do it? That’s what needs to be put forward. The only benefit it has for me is that it allows Jimmy to activate on HF from summits that are difficult on VHF. And that is why I have the balance of modes used that I do.

I’m not really into HF SSB, I don’t really like it. If it has some redeeming features and offers opportunities in amateur radio I am missing out on, then sell it to me!

Tom M1EYP

28

In reply to GM4FAM:

I know the letters backwards, forwards and upside down. I’ve written software that sends and decodes CW, and can make it sound like it’s from a keyer, a pump key or sent by someone using their foot whilst wearing ill-fitting boots. I written software that decodes it in noise and with a 60db+ SNR. I even played with a sort-of heuristic decoder that used previous characters decoded to guess and correct the next one based on language frequency tables (bit of a disaster that).

What I seem to be unable to do is sit down and practice receiving it. And that is root of my problem. I will not practice it and so I’m rubbish at receiving and because I’m rubbish at receiving it I wont put the effort in to get better.
And I have no excuse for this. And it’s embarassing because I’m the top activator in GM on 80m CW in 2007!

Andy
MM0FMF

29

In reply to G4CMQ:

Hello David.

The original idea was to ask for a bit of SSB activity not a CW v SSB debate or even the FM hand held side of the issue.

You have my respect in that all your SOTA is CW and HF, and mine is SSB all but 1 contact combined HF and VHF.

Where as being Central UK and a WAB square chaser, was why I joined in SOTA to get some more squares to reach a goal of 1000 on 2 mtrs SSB since starting WAB in 1985 on VHF and with many thanks to the SOTA activators this has been achieved.
With the bonus of helping me get the updated WAB awards including the Jubilee and a WAB trophy for VHF .

I have the CW ticket from years ago but choose not to use it for SOTA as others choose not to use SSB in there quests it’s a personal choice of mode .

Roger G0TRB .

30

In reply to G0TRB:
Dear SOTA chasers , as a CW activator I feel I need to make a comment on the lack of SSB activity… When I started SOTA activating some 3 years ago I used the K2 and did try to satisfy the Phone guys with lots of efforts to find a frequency and raise somebody spotting. well this needed a lot of battery power, with lots of calling for a few qsos. It is so much easier on the “established” Sota qrg 7032kc with almost instant response, even if not “pre announced” on SOTA watch… This beeing one reason. the second reason is , the K2 broke down 3 times do to shocks when falling over or hitting Rocks coming down our steep and “tough” mountains. Third reason, the K2 (and other SSB rigs) is much bigger and heavier than the actual ATS-3 CW rig. when you hike for up to 8 hours in our alps belive me this makes a differnce…
wishing GL with learning cw…

73 kurt HB9AFI

31

In reply to G0TRB:
Roger,
Had not realised you had quite so many WAB squares worked on 2m. Well done.
Tom, One of the main advantages of ssb compared with FM, is its efficiency. FM is remarkably good at consuming battery current and wasting RF bandwidth (Mr Carson rules)
It is also poor at long distance communication (capture effect) and was never designed as a DX mode. It is very good at local communications and is used a lot by the BBC and taxis I believe.
So if ones aim is to carry heavy batteries up a hill, and discharge them without communicating, FM is great!
Probably a little overstated! each to his own!
73,
Frank

32

I agree Frank. But my challenge was in response to some of the comments on this topic, ie how to sell SSB to the CW users! Can’t argue with the advantages of SSB over FM you state. CW, of course, has all the same advantages severalfold over both FM and SSB.

Tom M1EYP

33

In reply to G0TRB:
Hello Roger

My analysis was in no way an attempt to in any way prolong another interminable SOTA debate and I fully understand your original posting. It is possible, indeed probable, that if one applies a historical perspective to the league tables, we would find that SSB activity over recent years, has declined. However, we must understand that the original SOTA was very UK centric and that would have been the preferred mode judging by the way WAB has moved. In my early days of WAB, back in the 70’s, we used to have CW contests, which I was fortunate enough to win on several occasions. Now, with the advent of eastern Europe and Scandinavia, SSB activations are rarer. This might also be due to the bottomimg out of conditions because SOTA started at the high end of Cycle 23.
I wish you well in your SSB activities, whilst also being secretly gratified that the dying art of CW is enjoying a worthy resurgence in SOTA.

Best 73’s
David/G4CMQ

34

In reply to G4CMQ:

Some predictions suggest that solar cycles 24, 25 and 26 will be very low. I’m not sure just how reliable these predictions are, but we might have to get used to low sunspot counts, they might outlast many of us!

73

Brian G8ADD

35

In reply to G0TRB:

The original idea was to ask for a bit of SSB activity not a CW v SSB debate or > even the FM hand held side of the issue.

Forums like this are a bit like a hand grenade… it can be very difficult to put the pin back in once you have pulled it out and if you’re not careful it might blow up in your face! But that shouldn’t ever stop you expressing your opinion. We’d be in a sorry state if nobody was prepared to express an opinion.

And of course you can lay down and bask in the glory of knowing that if your opinion and my opinion are the same, then your opinion is correct! :slight_smile:

Andy
MM0FMF

36

In reply to M1EYP:

how to sell SSB to the CW users!

That’s easy to answer Tom - SSB is a more sociable mode. It is much easier to communicate topics of interest by the spoken word than by the key. Listen to me on a summit and generally you’ll get a description of the ascent, the weather and other aspects of the operation in just a few overs. The typical SOTA CW QSO by necessity is a bit like working a contest QSO. It is not easy to convey much more than a callsign, a report and 73 quickly.

Each to his own, but while recognising the superiority of CW, I prefer to talk than to key. I know more about my fellow SOTA participants using SSB than I could ever learn using CW. For me SOTA has an important social element - I have enjoyed speaking to the same people when I have been out on the summits and of course meeting a number as a result. A bit like years ago (late 60’s/early 70’s) when I was first licensed.

Shoot me down in flames, but IMHO 7MHz CW is a bit like a numbers game. It is enjoyable on occasion and it gives our friends in mainland Europe a chance to work new summits, but I couldn’t do it as an exclusive mode of communication.

73, Gerald

37

In reply to G0TRB:
Hello…
I start every time on the summit in CW…if there is no problem with the battery i go to ssb, but…on the last few operations i get almost no contact in ssb…equipment is the same and it works in cw…mhh my fault or is this mode not so gud for low power activations???

best 73 de Tom DL1DVE

38

I would have agreed with your analysis Gerald - but only before I started doing CW myself. Somehow, in spite of the fact that QSOs tend to be more concise and businesslike, I manage to experience the same sense of warmth, friendship and community as I do when talking to chasers over the microphone. This is largely down to the operating skills of the chasers; I try to give a bit of “warmth” back when I can - but I’m still a beginner!

It’s whatever does it for you I guess. For me, 2m FM, 80m CW and 40m CW turn in significantly better results than anything else. For Jimmy, it’s 2m FM and 80m SSB. So those are our ‘staple diet’, and I try to keep going with 2m SSB, 70cm SSB and 6m SSB in the Tuesday contests. Plenty of variety. But probably back on the olde faithful 7.032MHz CW in the morning!

…and I really MUST go QRT, in disciplined fashion, at 0640z. I got a late-mark this morning :frowning:

Tom M1EYP

39

My own personal experience is that it is very hard to find a clear frequency on HF SSB. I have always had this problem as I think I am over-considerate to other spectrum users. I am inclined to worry, so I am always worried that I’m transmitting on top of an ongoing QSO.

On the occaisons I have called CQ on HF with the barefoot FT817 on SSB, I have struggled to work anybody.

SOTA has really got me interested in radio again and I seem to be following Tom’s path, in that I’m desperately trying to become competent in CW, so I can use it for SOTA activations. As stated in another thread, I had the fortune to tune a station in the 70cms contest, who first used CW and then switched to SSB, the CW was easily twice as good to copy as the SSB. This really demonstrated to me the often stated advantage of CW in difficult conditions. I joined in the contest on Tuesday on 70cms, spurred on by Tom’s posts on the reflector and I’m seriously thinking of doing it again, it was great fun.

I listen to CW most nights as I have an old MFJ 8100 regen rx (my first amateur radio kit), at the side of my bed! I know that it is not ideal to try to learn morse when tired, but sometimes I seem to get into the ‘zone’ and it almost seems as though the people having a CW QSO are actually talking! I copy in my head.

I have had a couple of CW QSO’s but they have not been very sucessful. I feel I need to build up confidence with some ‘rubber stamp’ QSOs as suggested by Tom to Brian.

My RockMite 20 kit arrived this week, so I really need to get CW sorted! I can’t wait to try and qualify a summit with around 500mW on 14.060MHz (would need to spot I think!!).

When I made up my linked dipole, I cut it for the QRP CW frequencies, and the VSWR seems to get quite high for the SSB portions of the bands, so I think I might have made a mistake there! At the moment the antenna is unsuitable for SSB and I’m not competent in CW, oops! Next on the shopping list is an ATU!

I also believe the activator is king, so if I want to just take a simple dipole and my RockMite 20 up a summit, I will, and if a chaser wants the points, (s)he’ll have to use CW!

Well, I’ve waffled on long enough, I off to bed now to head copy some CW on 14MHz, good sigs from USA at this time of night!

73 to All - One other thing, whatever you do - have fun!

Colin

40

In reply to G0TRB:

HAS SSB Died ? , mhhhh, sometimes i think so as an activator who also
use ssb !
today on BW-192 i make a qsy to 7160-ssb after 7032 as spotted in my first
selfspot.after calling and calling a non-sota station -DK7BY- came back to me
and we have a short ragchew, then DL2DKW and ON4CAP give me a call . both stations i worked before on cw. i called cq sota from 0856-0920utc on 7160ssb.
the result - 3 stations in the log.at this times i think often about to stop my ssb activity.
because of the light rain at this time…
it seems there are less chasers in ssb as last year,and i mean the ones who
log the qso´s in the database.

to the activators who use a multimode-rig : why not give ssb a short try
after cw ? if you don´t like ssb,ok,but it not hurt. where are nice and
friendly chasers on ssb !! its worth a try …
but there are problems when the qro station uses a linked dipole,due to the
frequency range from cw to ssb , that results often in a bad swr in the ssb part.

also a very good point here came from Kurt HB9AFI about the lack of ssb in
europe. i mean the activations in the alps…HB9,F es OE and the last activations from Dan in LA. it make a big difference to carry a small cw rig
or a good ssb rig on a alpine summit.

in a few weeks i come back QRO, so ssb will be easier then again.but in moment
i prefer qrp due to the use of many bands and cw+ssb.
qro is ok as cw-only or ssb-only . but not on all bands with boths modes.
the last qro activations i take a heavy 17,2Ah slab with me to do the 2hours
of activity. in moment, i need a 3,8Ah slab for the same time with 10watts.
also the tuning of my antenna works and trys is easier. with 10watt i do
only 20% less qso´s than as QRO.
ok ok, i becomes all off-topic :slight_smile: sri,for that…

one last thing. i came as a cw-only op to sota and learned to do ssb !
why not the same with ssb>cw ? :slight_smile:

greetings klaus