GW/NW-043 - Cyrn-y-Brain

Hi Dave

I worked you from there on 18th Jan this year (thank you), and made a total of 14 x 2m FM contacts. I recall hearing a little bit of “clicky” interference, but not enough to affect the operation.
I was using an FT817 with vertical half wave antenna on 5m pole, from the stone shelter across the track from the compound.

I’d guess the problem Tom experienced was because he was much closer to the mast, and possibly at a different angle to it.

Adrian
G4AZS

Hi Adrian

Yes, a very solid 59++ both ways according to my log :slight_smile: and many thanks for the activation of this and NW-042 as well. Seems to be a popular combination :wink:

GW7HEM/P did them the other way round on Jan 23 - again no problem

Dave
M6RUG)

Yes, certain it was my position. I normally operate from by the stone shelter with little or no problem on VHF. This time I retreated to the opposite side of the mast compound from that - ie the only place in the vicinity with any degree of shelter from the strong icy wind.

The main focus was 10m, and that was no problem in terms of breakthrough QRM. Once I’d qualified on 10m, I went to 2m to offer the summit to local VHFers, but then encountered the breakthrough. I could have packed everything up and then reset it all up in a different position - or tried some HT work just before walking off the summit - but it was too cold to be bothering with such unnecessary self-indulgence!

Hi Dave,

From what I remember of this summit which was about 5 years ago, it’s pretty flat, so not the greatest take-off. The walk takes twice as long as it should do, in order to avoid all the sheep crap on the tarmac path.

IIRC, I walked past the comms tower and before reaching the trig point, bungeed an X-510, triple 5/8 colinear to a fence on the left. Think I knocked off about 60 or 70 contacts on 2m FM, working with the FT-857.

With that set-up, I would have expected a lot more.

Moel y Gamelin, the summit opposite, is much better, but a longer walk.

73 Mike
2E0YYY

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Interesting take. I wouldn’t have said Cyrn-y-Brain is flat at all. It certainly does have a long almost horizontal ridge of about a mile, but drops off steeply either side of that. It certainly isn’t even as flat as Gun, and not in the league of Normanby Top. Cyrn-y-Brain was a very popular VHF contest site (and possibly still is). I think the take off from there is very good - although it does help if you sit somewhere where your rig won’t get overloaded from commercial junk!

Nothing too shabby about 60 or 70 contacts on 2m FM either, whatever the set-up. No problems with placing the feet either for me on Saturday.

I have already posted something similar on my activation post but in case it is missed, I will repeat it here:

According to my Radio Listener’s Guide 2016 there is a 5 kW DAB radio transmitter listed for this tower on the standard BBC multiplex frequency 225.648 MHz. It is listed as Llangollen - SJ 209488. I don’t know when it became operational but it also appears in the 2015 publication of this guide. This may be the ‘new’ signal that is causing the interference problems.

Take a look at this document from Ofcom

The “Llangollen” site is indeed this summit and the document states that it is a “Future” site. As the document was published in January of 2015 it is fair to say that February 2016 is “the future” so a possible cause of interference if the rig has wide RX coverage ???

Dave
(M6RUG)

Hi Dave

Thanks for posting the Ofcom information. Next time I go up there I will be better prepared and take a different transceiver and / or allow more time to be able to walk around the activation zone to see if I can escape the qrm.

73
Nick

The DAB antennas were on the Arqiva (BBC) mast in 2010. I can see a stack of 4 vertical dipoles on an extension mast in my photos from my last visit.

Anyway DAB is (the clue is in the name) Digital Audio Broadcasting and so you wont hear anything on a 2m narrowband FM radio. The RF at 222MHz is unlikely to cause much desense either with 5kW ERP

The Band II FM transmitter is about 4kW RF into some 5.5db of antenna giving 22.5kW ERP per channel (R1,2,3,4) but that has never caused issues before.

For you to hear discernible audio then the signal is analogue and is either a sprog from the Band II TX or the result of some horrendous mixing product such as 3x Band II - 1x PMR hiband.

i.e. 3x 100MHz = 300, 1x 153MHz = 153, 300 - 153 = 147MHz. Or some tortuous other mix.

Whatever the cause, it is sufficient that people know there is more of a problem than there may have been before. Suitable choice of trasnceiver may be required.

Still it’s a grand pair of summits with Moel y Gamelin opposite and the splendid grub and tea you can get at the Ponderosa Cafe.

Hi Nick

Well if you need someone on the other end of a radio, let me know as I am more than happy to help.

Whatever the problem is, it would be great to find a resolution for ever ones benefit.

That goes for anyone else who fancies a challenge :wink:

Regards

Dave
(M6RUG)

Hi Dave

Thanks for the offer of help but I don’t reckon to back on the Ponderosa Pair until 2017!

Hi Andy

I understand about the audibility of digital signals on fm receivers but I think there are possibly two different signals emanating from this tower that are causing the two problems I refered to previously. However, it is not something I will loose sleep over and won’t think about it until next year when I will probably take hf anyway! Now thinking about where to go tomorrow!

73
Nick

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Hi Nick

So your receive issues acounted for why you could not hear my 1.5kW erp signal :slight_smile:

Carolyn

Hi Carolyn

Sorry about that!

We are off to The Cheviot tomorrow so no towers to worry about there!

Cheers
Nick

No need to worry about the bogs on the summit since they put the flagged paths in!

Qsl Andy! The trig point seems to get higher and higher - hi hi!

I will be listening for The Cheviot on 2m FM Nick… 183 Kms from here in IO94of. Probably make a QSO with you if you can carry a battery, 2m mobile transceiver and dipole between the three of you! I’ve never worked The Cheviot before on 2m in fact.

This was us with Treacle on Cheviot in 2013:

73 Phil

A “different” view of Cheviot summit - albeit still much tamed from times past. This was on our memorable final day walking the Pennine Way in 2006.

http://tomread.co.uk/the_cheviot.htm
http://tomread.co.uk/pennine_way_on_the_air.htm

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Hi Phil

Happy days! I remember the day very well, the circular walk back with all those river crossings and then Housedon Hill and then the search for a watering hole around Newcastle!

Pete can’t make it tomorrow so we have changed our plans. Dave and I are heading for Shillhope Law (a new one for me) instead. Hopefully, Dave, Pete and I will do The Cheviot next week wx permitting. However, we will be qro!

Hi Tom

Looks a bit bleak and wet but a welcome sight after all that walking I bet.

73
Nick

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I see you have posted for 2m FM - that can be tough from SB-006 although not always. If I can be in a high enough location (I have a hill between home and SB-006) I will listen for you. Also I sent an email to a couple of locals just in case they haven’t seen your alert
Jim

Hi Jim
Thanks very much. Our intention is to use an FT-1900R on high power. This will be a new one for me but Dave did it last year. I have been studying your notes and I think we will go up on the longer route from Shillmoor. I am also thinking about maybe taking hf as a back up system.
I hope we manage to work you tomorrow.

73
Nick