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Given points


#1

We currently have the ability to see chasing points, chased summit, activator points, activated summits, S2S points, Completed summits, etc, but there’s one thing I miss and I wonder whether you might find interesting or at least nice to have.
I’d like to see a table for activator’s given points and I think this is a very easy to be created feature at the database.
Such a table would encourage activators to make more QSOs when they activate rather than logging just 4 QSOs and running away. It would also encourage activators to achieve higher summits giving more points than the lower ones do.
I know this has the risk of making activators stay at the summits longer than it may be safe for them or trying to reach high mountains for which some activators may not be skilled and prepared, but I think the common sense should always be above all this because it’s just a hobby and life is something much more valuable and important than being on top of a scores table.
As it’s been said before this is not a World Wide competition and it’s just stupid that someone living in a low a.s.l.territory with some few 1 pointers, pretends to compete with someone living in the Alps, for instance. But it would be nice for the hams living in the same areas to compare and compete with their neighbour activators living in the same area.
This is just an idea I want to post here and I’d like to see your opinons about it.
Best 73 de Guru


Chaser Points Given Out
#2

You have already referred to the potential problems with this idea in your own post Guru. These are the very reasons we should not do this in my opinion.

Activators are ranked on activator points, chasers are ranked on chaser points. It would be inappropriate to also rank activators according to chaser points I believe.


#3

Good Idea! Fully corresponds to spirit of SOTA stated on the very first sentence of results pages: :disappointed:
SOTA is not inherently a competitive activity, it’s about individual aspirations and working towards a goal at your own pace.
73!
Janos


#4

I don’t see any need for extra views of the data.

If you want to see how many QSO’s someone made from a summit you can do that from the database as it is - if you click all the right links.

Stewart G0LGS


#5

Sometimes making just four especially on VHF can be very hard work. I don’t think any activator wants to “run away” its usually a nice place to be up there…

Jonathan


#6

This concept of a “4 and run” activator has been around since the early days of SOTA, but I don’t believe such an activator has ever existed in reality. And if there did, that’s fine anyway!


#7

The only time I ever did a “4 and run” it took an hour to get the four!

Brian


#8

I hate the first 4 QSO’s of every activation. It is always that nervous time - will I qualify after having driven for 2-3 hours then climbed the summit. Once I have 4 ‘in the bag’ I can then relax and enjoy the activation. I am sure there are many other activators like me so I doubt if anyone will willingly hate every activation they do by restricting themselves to just 4 QSO’s. The only times that I have logged just 4 QSO’s (and there are a few) has been when only 4 QSO’s were all I was able to get due to propagation, weather and the time constraints imposed by long drives and climbs.

Do we need another league table - NO

73 Glyn


#9

Good idea Guru!

Currently I am using DL4MFM’s SOTA Activator’s CSV v2 Log Analyzer to look into interesting statistics of my activations. It would be nice to know how much points I gave to chasers (total and average), not necessarily in form of a “league table”, it could be just a pair of numbers on my Activation Statistics page.

73 Fric

edit: corrected the link


#10

Look at your own log (or anybody’s log) and multiply QSOs by Points

From my last 5 activations:

the given points are 20,15,66,32 & 16


#11

Basic, but useful GCSE statistics :smiley:


#12

It’s cristal clear to me, gents.
The huge majority of the so far expressed opinions are clearly against implementing this new table.
No problem at all with me. It was just an idea but given that for those ruling the SOTA program and working on this database and the full program are not buying it, there’s no point to me on argueing anymore about it.
I’ll keep enjoying SOTA and having the same fun I currently have when chasing and activating, either with or as it is now, without such table.
Thanks for expressing your opinions here.
Best 73 de Guru.


#13

Hi Guru,
On reflection and after reading all the “No” arguments I still think your idea has merit. It is a statistic that interests me more than a couple of others already available. Of course Andy has to take into account what the rest of the MT think (all “negative” so far) and also has other tasks to attend to that are of higher priority. Some things to do with data base migration and midnight rollovers IIRC.

Extending Andy’s suggestion I could download my entire activation data base into EXCEL or similar spread sheet and do the calculation. I have put it on my bucket list. Then only a monthly update would be required.

73
Ron


#14

All suggestions have merit, some more than others. For example, the Summit To Summit and Complete Awards are both based on suggestions made by activators and chasers.

The biggest issue I have with this is that the reward is directly proportional to the time spent activating and this may encourage participants to spend too long on a summit in adverse conditions. In Spain in the summer, this could be too long in the sun after climbing in the heat. In Scotland it could be too long in the cold and rain. The MT feel that encouraging people to stay longer is unwise and we try to design things so that you don’t need to stay for a long time. So you need only 4 QSOs to claim the points for activations. The challenges could be claimed encourage longer operation but they also allow repeated visits and multipliers for more summits visited so you can gain as higher score by many visits to varied summits as you could get by spending hours on the same summit.


#15

I understand the concerns the MT have about the idea of creating something that may force activators to linger on summits, thus increasing the risk for their lifes.

I already pointed that same thing out in my original post.

However, what about showing for personal use only under the Activation Statistics page, other counts like:

  • the number of given points as an activator,
  • the total number of QSOs logged as an activator,
  • the total number of worked activations.

These are easy to get from the database numbers and it’s something I’d like to see and know just for my personal information.

I know you’ve been having a tough time lately with all the database problems and your headaches with it probably aren’t yet fully over.

It’s easy to throw out ideas when others have to do the work to implement them, but let me say that I never meant giving any of you even more work.

These ideas are something for you to think about and implement one day only in case you find them feasible and interesting, only when you get a chance and there are no other priorities.

Best 73 de Guru


#16

SOTA activations even for 4 contacts involve risks greater than those for crossing the road. So it is understandable that the MT don’t want to increase the risk. I’m not disputing the decision.
However no matter what the MT say or publish, at the end of the day the activator must carry the responsibility for all aspects of the outing and for most cases it is the descent that has the highest probability of injury not the duration on the summit IMO.

I do need to say thanks to the MT for running the program. While I can’t increase your salary if you any of you make it to my part of the world there will be a free beer and help with an activation.

73
Ron.


#17

Concur wholeheartedly with Ron’s sentiment.

Andy, if you had of mentioned you were planning on meeting me on Aurthurs seat earlier in the year (rather than just turning up there!), I would have brought up a sixpack of something nice to consume with you! Apart from a way to thank you for all your hard work, any excuse to have a beer is good for me :slight_smile:

Matt
VK1MA


#18

Took me less than a minute in excel. I’ve given away 4346 points. More than I have earnt as an activator and chaser combined. Happy to keep giving them away for free! And beer if you want to help me do this.

Compton
VK2HRX


#19

I have no experience of conditions on Australian summits, but I wonder if they are anywhere near as variable as they are here on the Atlantic fringe of Europe. My first experience of just how quickly it can change was about 50 years ago on Liathach, GM/WS-043, a lovely sunny excursion until it suddenly clouded up and literally within five minutes I was struggling against a howling gale and a blizzard. Any mountaineer can tell similar stories of ranges like the Alps, where a thunderstorm can boil up out of nowhere in minutes. Such experiences make me wary of spending too long on the higher summits where the descent to the car is going to take hours rather than minutes. Perhaps I am too cautious, but you hear of what happened to people who weren’t…

Some of the reasons for the descent being more risky than the ascent would be fatigue, the higher risk of storms in the afternoon, and being in a hurry. Many a day out in Glencoe has finished with a rush to get to the Clachaig Inn!

Brian


#20

I agree with you Jonathan. I very rarely hear activators just getting 4 contacts and then closing down - unless there is a very good reason - eg storm approaching.
Ed.