Other SOTA sites: SOTAwatch | SOTA Home | Database | Video | Photos | Shop | Mapping | FAQs | Facebook | Contact SOTA

General Rules 3.7.2


#1

Can somebody (in MT or not) explain to me the legitimacy of paragraph 3.7.2 in General Rules ?

“A Summit may be activated as often as desired but an individual Activator can only claim points for operation from a particular Summit once in any calendar year”

Thanks

73 Alain F6ENO

PS: there is a little bug in the Gen Rules pdf file page 2 of 17 (paragraph 3.7.3)


#2

In reply to F6ENO:

Alain

It simply means that you can activate a hill as many times as you like but that you can only claim the activator points once in each year. The database accounts for this automatically so you can enter all activations.

73

Richard
G3CWI


#3

In reply to G3CWI:

Hi Richard,

Yes, of course, I understood that, but my question was WHY ? what can be the benefits of a such rule ?

73 Alain


#4

In reply to F6ENO:

Alain

It is to encourage people to explore new hills and places.

73

Richard
G3CWI


#5

In reply to F6ENO:

Imagine somebody who lives at the foot of a moderate summit worth, say, 6 points. Without this rule he could activate this summit twice a weekend for a year (ignoring days lost to bad weather) and amass 624 points per year. There would be no incentive to do any other hills, people would just do the easiest and most accessible hills repeatedly.

73

Brian G8ADD


#6

In reply to G8ADD:

Imagine somebody who lives at the foot of a moderate summit worth,
say, 6 points. Without this rule he could activate this summit twice a
weekend for a year (ignoring days lost to bad weather) and amass 624
points per year.

Hi Brian,

Thanks for these explanations. That’s what I was thinking about.
BUT:
1/ This doesn’t avoid somebody to climb the same summit every day and give points to chasers.
2/ I think that if somebody climbs every day, he should receive his points in return for his efforts, even if he amass more than 600 points a year.

There would be no incentive to do any other hills,
people would just do the easiest and most accessible hills repeatedly.

3/ Last week I planed 3 high summits in a day; I activated the third during last July. When I was down from the second summit, very tired, I looked to the third and…went to the parking…
You can imagine that if I could claim its points, I should make somme extra effort to reach the third summit.

Best 73
Alain


#7

When I was down from the second summit, very tired, I looked to the third and…went to the parking…
You can imagine that if I could claim its points, I should make somme extra effort to reach the third summit.

Alain,

Therefore I feel the rule is correct. If you are “very tired”, then the car is the best place, not the third summit!

The rule does not stop anyone from repeatedly activating their favourite/most convenient local hill. Many people in SOTA do repeat activations for zero points, including myself (over 300 activations of G/SP-015 but only one point per year), so the rule is not stopping them. Other examples are LA1KHA on LA/TM-049, G6LKB on G/LD-049, GW4EVX on GW/NW-051, G1INK on G/SP-001 and G/SP-004.

As I say, I have received 8 points for my 300+ activations of G/SP-015. Do I want 300+ points for it? Certainly not. It would have made Mountain Goat too easy and meant that I never visited or discovered some wonderful places around the UK.

However, if you wanted to run an award based on points for EVERY activation (including repeats) in France, then you could. Look in the General Rules for “Association Sponsored Awards”.

Tom M1EYP


#8

In reply to F6ENO:

Hi Alain,

I must agree with the other comments so far. While activating during weekends I have been asked if there is going to be a permanent antenna installation on this summit. Of course I replied ‘mais non, seulement telegraphie pour le plaisir’. It is quite unlikely that I will meet the same people on the same hill the year after.

73, Jaakko OH7BF/F5VGL


#9

In reply to M1EYP:

Hi Tom,

It would
have made Mountain Goat too easy and meant that I never visited or
discovered some wonderful places around the UK.

I suppose you should have visited other places, be that as it may, points or not…

73 Alain


#10

In reply to F6ENO:

1/ This doesn’t avoid somebody to climb the same summit every day and
give points to chasers.

You are right Alain. The originators of SOTA were not trying to stop people having fun with radio on hilltops; they were however, trying to encourage participants to explore. That brings with it, the challenge and enjoyment of planning trips and holidays around SOTA.

2/ I think that if somebody climbs every day, he should receive his
points in return for his efforts, even if he amass more than 600
points a year.

I suspect that if ten different people were given the brief of designing an award scheme called Summits on the Air, there would be at least ten solutions devised. As I have mentioned, an aim of SOTA was (and is) encouraging exploration and the wording of that rule is an important factor in achieving that objective.

3/ Last week I planed 3 high summits in a day; I activated the third
during last July. When I was down from the second summit, very tired,
I looked to the third and…went to the parking…
You can imagine that if I could claim its points, I should make somme
extra effort to reach the third summit.

That third summit is there for your next trip. I almost always plan more than I can actually do so missing summits out is normal for me. I enjoy having the challenge.

I look forward to our next contact.

73

Richard
G3CWI


#11

To me the rule is a bit out of date.

Climb a summit get the points, simple as that. If you don’t want to amass 300 points because you climbed the same summit then don’t claim the points, but if you want to become a mountain goat climbing the same summit then why not.

SOTA is non competitive so we are told, so what does it matter how you get to mountain goat status or get your points.

Forcing activators to go to different summits to get the points may have been a good idea when fuel was 60p per litre but it is plain daft now at over a £1 a litre, to me its just another silly rule that should be changed, but I know it will never get changed.

This is just one of the reasons you have not see me on the hills this year doing SOTA, there was nothing in it for me. Why drag a radio up a mountain for no points. I have replaced the radio with wild camping kit, the radio will replace the camping kit when I can get points again.


#12

In reply to 2E0KPO:

Would also like to see this rule changed.

I visit my favourite summits several times per year but only once per year with HF gear - weight counts on all-day hikes.

Tom: going up the same 6-pointer to achieve MG or many different 6-pointers in the same association makes no different effortwise - so I would not use the word “easy” here - or do you suggest to visit associations with “easier” summits to achieve MG? :wink:

73,

Gerd.


#13

In reply to 2E0KPO:
Hi Steve,

Climb a summit get the points, simple as that.

I think so;

But this rule was not absurd; the goal was to avoid climbing always the same summit. But it seems that it doesn’t work, and that it is done for very few hams living near their favourite summit (see the list in Tom’s thread);
And the others ?
Now there are plenty activators able to climb lots of summits, so even if some hams choose to always climb the same summit, the others can do the job for the remaining summits.

That is why I raised the problem.

And finaly, last tuesday, I climbed 2 more than 2000m summits, walked 15 km, and got nil…
And couldn’t choose other summits, unless driving many kilometers.

73 Alain


#14

In reply to G3CWI:
Hi to all,
“It is to encourage people to explore new hills and places”.
OK Richard
"There would be no incentive to do any other hills, people would just do the easiest and most accessible hills repeatedly."
OK Brian, and Tom, OK too.

But, to my opinion, it is not necessary to pass from an extreme to the other one. I am going to try to make me understand with my bad English.
In France, for example, but it there in the others, let us take the OM and YL who live on the West of a line " LILLE / BIARRITZ ". For many of them, it will be necessary to make several hundreds of Km to go to activate a summit. Even for me in Champagne.
If these persons have the possibility of activating the same summit 3 or 4 times a year, by going to visit the family for example, why they would not obtain 3 or 4 times the points of this summit?
Chasers, them, installed well in their armchair, obtain them without problem.
“It is to encourage people to explore new hills and places”. Certainly Richard, but it is also necessary to reward them.
I don’t think that it would “be less ethical” than to activate 8 in 10 summits a day. Even if these summits are “molehills”. For me, it is impossible without going out of his car.

As the laws for states, rules of associations can be MODIFIED (not changed).

I hope that I was understood, in spite of my not academic English. Sorry, but my favourite translator, at the moment, is teaching your language to the French students.
73 QRO to all,
Andy, F5AKL


#15

In reply to 2E0KPO:

This is just one of the reasons you have not see me on the hills this
year doing SOTA

I can’t be that bad Steve. In fact you have done 10 activations this year!

73

Richard
G3CWI


#16

In reply to G3CWI:

10 summits for SOTA in 09, considering in 07 I did 88 summits and in 08 I did 49… there must be something up with me I have been going downhill in SOTA ever since 2007.

I wonder what has caused that…


#17

In reply to 2E0KPO:

I have been going
downhill in SOTA ever since 2007.

You have identified the problem Steve. SOTA requires uphill and downhill in roughly equal measure :wink:

73

Richard
G3CWI


#18

In reply to 2E0KPO and G3CWI:

Steve and Ric,

I know there are problems between some hams and MT, we are not here to fight, but to try to improve SOTA for the future to attract more and more hams.

73 Alain


#19

In reply to G3CWI:

I like the “equal measure” idea, do you think it could work?

:wink:


#20

In reply to 2E0KPO:

This is just one of the reasons you have not see me on the hills this
year doing SOTA, there was nothing in it for me. Why drag a radio up a
mountain for no points. I have replaced the radio with wild camping
kit, the radio will replace the camping kit when I can get points
again.

It looks as if you are contradicting yourself, Steve: you can afford the fuel for wild camping but not for SOTA? And why was there nothing in SOTA for you this year? At the beginning of the new year all the summits become available to you again, so had you forgotten that or is it that now you are perhaps only interested in uniques? If so then your problem is self imposed and changing the rules won’t change anything for you.

73

Brian G8ADD