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G/NP-022 Calf Top is now officially a mountain in UK Terms (2000ft)


#1

Report here from the BBC…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-37289472

73 Phil


#2

Yes, but does it now have 150 metres prominence when it didn’t before? Is this a new SOTA summit? :grin:


#3

The clue is in the number Ed. It has always been a SOTA summit, just now we know it is about 2.5cm higher than we previously thought it was. Incidentally, I thought our “mountains” were all 3,000 foot plus. Shows how much I know! :wink:

73, Gerald G4OIG


#4

Except when Phil originally posted this - I don’t think he included the SOTA reference either in the title or the text - did you Phil? …


#5

There’s no symbol indicating it’s been edited on my view.


#6

OK, then its BOSS-EYED Eddie then. In any case what a lot of conversation an extra 1" of height has caused…


#7

…and we are paying for this revelation through our licence fee… C’est la vie.


#8

Not edited Gerald. the ref was included in the original header!

The BBC is worth every penny compared to the main satellite provider who I never will subscribe to, I am quite sure of that!

73 Phil


#9

Getting a bit off topic here but do the BBC now have adverts?
Here in Germany I have to pay over €200 per year licence fee, supposably to pay for the two main TV organisations - ARD & ZDF and the national radio “Deutschland Radio”. Similar to the fact that the UK licence fee used to pay for the BBC (TV & Radio). The thing is that ARD & ZDF are commercial stations in that they often have MORE adverts between and in the middle of programs than the private TV stations! I think Deutschlnd radio no longer transmits on-air, only over the Internet.
If ARD/ZDF get all the advertising revenue, it’s morally wrong that they get the licence fee (IMHO). I was wondering if this has also happened in the UK with the BBC?

Ed.


#10

Hi Ed BBC programming is full of endless adverts… for the BBC…

73


#11

BBC content is different depending where you are. As the BBC think I’m in Zurich I get a different BBC news view to people in the UK and some stuff wont play.

No adverts in the UK apart from adverts for the BBC.


#12

I saw Calf Top today standing proud in glorious sunshine!


#13

Thanks Paul, Thanks Andy,
I have no issue with a TV station advertising their own upcoming programs etc. as they make no revenue from that but the fct that ARD & ZDF advertise anything that they can get aid for (Financial and medical adverts being the most proflific) and then also legally demand all TV (or Internet) users in the country to pay them an annual fee as well is to my view incorrect. Either the station is publically support or it is a commercial station, being paid on both counts is not right.

OK closing this off-topic question, thanks.

Checking G/NP-022 on the map, it’s a little too far West for me to easily include in my trip to the UK at the end of the month, I’ll try for G/TW-003 Gisborough Moor, so that I will have then activated all TW summits.

73 Ed.


#14

I wholly concur… and in general their news is better presented. I am just somewhat surprised that Calf Top’s new status was on the BBC’s radar.


#15

It wasn’t on the radar… the BBC are responding to a PR push from assorted people.


#16

Actually it seems to be more subtle and interesting than that. At first I took the BBC report at face value, i.e. that Calf Top had been surveyed more accurately. However the Ordnance Survey have published a more detailed explanation here:

This reveals that this is not a different measurement, but a change of coordinate reference system - the mathematical model which converts GPS measurements back into a reference system which is more or less compatible with the one established in the last century, based on the Airy ellipsoid and Newlyn datum. Without remeasuring any of them, the official heights of all our our hills have changed a bit. The only thing that distinguishes Calf Top is that the change takes the value over an arbitrary threshold in an archaic system of units which makes some people consider it to be a mountain.

It appears that the typical change in heights is about 25mm. I believe that is around the same order of magnitude as the variations in ground height caused by tidal movements (I assume that the quoted heights are a long term average).

It just goes to show how arbitrary these definitions of “mountain” actually are. The zero reference no longer corresponds with any physical property of the planet at all.

Martyn M1MAJ


#17

The whole subject is fascinating. It’s only when you try to map somewhere you realise how difficult it is. The following may be of interest to UK Sotaists.

http://www.hills-database.co.uk/Accuracy%20of%20heights%20from%20OS%20maps.pdf