Discones

Old Reflector
21

In reply to G8ADD:

In reply to GW0DSP:

Surely the repeaters need restricted range or the qrm would be
terrible and the numbers of hams able to use one at any time would be
limited.

Take a listen to GB3MP or GB3VT or GB3MN sometime, they have terrific coverage over great distances.

The emergency services are in the same position, its a matter
of service area and user numbers.

Surely they opted for rock solid reliability.

Vertical polarisation for mobile
operation was chosen for two very good reasons.

That’s news to me, all bands/modes are used mobile. Maybe you refer to the repeater useage.

secondly the mobile antenna is more easily
set up:

Hear hear, especially on a summit in winter wx

horizontal polarisation over a metallic ground plane needs
precise spacing to hold the radiation pattern close to the horizon.
Add to this the greater ease of accommodating an antenna with gain.
Stacked halos or turnstiles would be quite unwieldy atop a mini!

I don’t see the relevence. This debate was purely about you not hearing a sota activator on a summit, I doubt you will see many minis on Snowdonian summits.

Incidentally, there used to be a horizontal FM group which
demonstrated that FM was only a little inferior to SSB if a horizontal
antenna was used.

Just as horizontal ssb is inferior to horizontal CW.

That group faded away but the idea is being revived

by another band of enthusiasts, I have worked some of them over quite
good distances!

I use horizontal FM myself from Hope Mtn because it prevents the desensing from the commercial stuff, just as horizontal ssb does.

In fact I so rarely use FM and vertical polarisation that I would have
to change antennas manually (and search for the right coax!) but a
crossed yagi would be great if they were not so infernally visible and
likely to arouse the attention of the planners! I keep my head down
and hope!

That is a choice only you can make, it’s not the problem or fault of the chap on the summit using vertical ssb.

I take it you suffer from strict planning regs by the sound of it Brian, that must be a real blessed nuisance.

73 Mike

22

In reply to GW0DSP:

I think you missed the point about repeaters. We have far fewer repeater channels than we have repeaters, just listen to the QRM during an opening! The same applies to emergency services, the last thing they need to cope with in the course of their duties is co-channel interference, Mike! And of course a major factor in the genesis of the repeater network was the popularity of mobile operation. I suspect that if mobile operation and repeaters had not become so popular FM would still be conducted on horizontal polarisation as it was in the 60’s. Similarly, most emergency services operate fixed to mobile, hence my reference to mobile antennas.

“I don’t see the relevence. This debate was purely about you not hearing a sota activator on a summit, I doubt you will see many minis on Snowdonian summits.”

You are the one that brought up repeaters and emergency services, I answered your point. And I cannot emphasise strongly enough that you are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! It is not about me in any sense, it is certainly not about me not hearing an activator. It is about the technical reasons to prefer horizontal for SSB using my experience as an example, it is about a choice that on the more difficult summits could considerably reduce the chance of an activation being qualified. And note that even so it is a hi-jacked topic!

By the way, in the case described above, there was in fact a simple option to use horizontal polarisation - the rig could have been laid down on a trig point or cairn, or just hand held, so that the whip was horizontal. This has been done successfully before. It was not necessary on this particular occasion because the activation was a success anyway, but it is an available option to bear in mind.

A good point about horizontal reducing desensing from commercial transmissions, I will bear it in mind next time I activate one of the Clees, which are notorious for that problem!

73

Brian G8ADD

23

In reply to G8ADD:

Lol, Have you been on the Christmas Ale Brian? I love you when you’re angry:-)

To go back to the original point, you were whinging because you missed a summit and then claimed it was because the op used vertical SSB.

You only missed it because you failed to listen SSB vertical end of story.

Repeaters, minis etc have no part in the debate whoever mentioned them.

73 Mike

24

In reply to GW0DSP:

Mike, I suspect you are deliberately trying to wind me up, and not for the first time!

We’ve said all there is to say, leave it at that.

HNY

Brian

25

In reply to G8ADD:

In reply to GW0DSP:

Mike, I suspect you are deliberately trying to wind me up, and not for
the first time!

We’ve said all there is to say, leave it at that.

HNY

Brian

Brian, I don’t know what to think, I can assure you that no such attempt was or is being made at all.
I don’t ever attempt a wind up, I merely speak the truth and I’m sorry that you see that as an attempted wind up.

Maybe you would be better not to quote polarisation or any other instructions/advice to the activators through the Reflector if you can’t take an honest reply for what it is.

HNY
Mike

26

In reply to GW0DSP:

Mike, you won’t leave well alone.

OK, one more try.

You accused me of whinging because I had missed a summit and was blaming it on the activator for using vertical SSB. This is a travesty. This hijacking came about because of the following comment posted on Dec 26th at 17:22 in a discussion about discones (remember that discussion?):

“The vertical polarisation of the discone is OK for FM but since the convention for SSB is horizontal polarisation you can expect a theoretically infinite cross-polarisation loss, which in practise is 20 to 30 dB - although I have noticed a few misguided activators using vertical polarisation for SSB recently!”

This was queried by G7ADF at 18:28 and I used the experience of that missed opportunity purely to illustrate the losses involved in crossed polarisation. How you have managed to inflate this in your mind to a whinge quite escapes me, and to be honest, I don’t think I really want to know. Activations are like buses, if you miss one there will be another one in due time. I am not such a pathetically compulsive character as to rail at anything so trivial as a missed activation, and note this quite well, Mike, I’ll be darned if I will abstain from contributing to discussions just because someone is prepared to pursue me with gross distortions of what I actually say, and which can easily be checked up on by reading back through the thread.

That is my final final on the topic of missed activations and whinging. If this episode has left any room for further sensible discussion on antennas and I have anything further to contribute to it I shall do so, but I will not allow anyone to draw me into silly arguments.

73

Brian G8ADD

27

In reply to G8ADD:

Yaaaaaaawn…Yeah right

Tis the season to be jolly. I had written a long reply Brian, but I have decided to delete it rather than spell out some home truths to you.

Now, I suggest that YOU leave it at that.

Happy New Year

28

Oh dear.
Not so much hijacked as taken hostage flown half way round the world and then shot!
Please see "Discone: The Return"
Q!